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Passenger jets may get anti-missile systems
miami herald ^ | 1/11/04

Posted on 01/11/2004 6:22:46 PM PST by knak

WASHINGTON - Concerned that airline travelers are increasingly vulnerable to terrorist missile attacks, the government is developing plans to equip commercial airliners with the same protective countermeasures that military pilots use to fend off enemy missiles.

Thousands of easily concealed shoulder-fired missiles are within quick reach of terrorist groups from the world's black-market arms bazaars. In August, FBI agents arrested a British citizen in New Jersey suspected of trying to peddle a Russian-made SA-18, a newer-generation surface-to-air missile.

"As of today," defense analyst Loren Thompson said, "commercial airliners are naked against the potential of such a threat."

Last week, the Department of Homeland Security selected three companies to develop plans for equipping the nation's approximately 7,000 airliners with devices to counter missile attacks. Testing and development will take two years and cost nearly $100 million.

The holiday season brought new reminders of potential terrorism as British Airways repeatedly canceled flights from London to Washington and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge elevated the nation's terror alert. The alert was lowered for most of the nation Friday.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., are pushing legislation to install anti-missile systems on domestic airliners. They say the department's two-year study will take too long to confront a growing threat.

But airline officials say further review is necessary to avoid rushing into use of untested technology and saddling the struggling industry with billions of dollars in added costs.

Installing the equipment could cost $1 million to $3 million per aircraft. The Air Transport Association, which represents the industry, says the total costs could reach as high as $100 billion.

Fort Worth, Texas-based American Airlines would be required to equip more than 700 airliners. While the company has not expressed outright opposition, American spokesman Carlo Bertolini said cutting off terrorists' access to the missiles is a more effective way to deal with the threat.

As a "secondary measure," Bertolini said, American supports the creation of "secure perimeters" around airports that would ensure the safety of airliners during takeoffs and landings, when they are most vulnerable to missile attacks.

Homeland Security officials authorized Northrop Grumman, BAE Systems and a team led by United Airlines to spend the next six months studying the feasibility of protecting commercial airliners with military-style missile-defense systems.

The field will then be winnowed to two companies, which will spend the following 18 months on research and development.

Northrop and BAE are developing plans for a new generation of laser defenses, which have been used in military aircraft since the Vietnam War.

The system will be contained in a pod, also called a canoe because of its shape, on the bottom of the fuselage. Sensors will maintain a 360-degree vigil around the aircraft. When a threat is detected, an intense laser beam will be directed at the missile, throwing it off course and away from the airplane.

The United-led team is developing an alternative plan to use flares as decoys to lead missiles away from the aircraft, another concept used for decades on military planes. A major participant on the team is Avisys of Austin, Texas, a 13-year-old company that develops protection systems for nonmilitary aircraft.

Avisys President Ron Gates, a former Navy commander, said the system will be similar to those the company is developing for wide-body aircraft used by the heads of state in Middle Eastern countries.

The flares will be ejected automatically from dispensers on the aircraft, collectively forming a "heat signature" larger than that of the airplane, tricking the missile into veering off course.

Unlike older technology on military craft, the flares burn so fast that they are invisible to the naked eye, so passengers would not be exposed to a horrifying fireworks show outside their windows.

All the systems under study will operate automatically and are designed to negate the threat within seconds, even before passengers and crew realize they are in danger.

An indicator on the instrument panel would presumably notify pilots afterward. The department is also requiring that the information be dispatched instantly and automatically to Washington so authorities can alert other aircraft and issue a terrorist alert.

Thompson, an analyst with the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va., said there is "fairly strong support in Congress" for missile-defense systems aboard airliners.

"Most experts believe that if we don't do it, it will encourage terrorists to attack aircraft," he said. "The question is not whether we do it, but how soon we'll have a system that's affordable and reliable enough."

In a November report, the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the Library of Congress, cited other options, such as toughening airport security, modifying flight operations and cracking down on the proliferation of surface-to-air missiles on the black market.

"However, these techniques by themselves cannot completely mitigate the risk of domestic attacks and would not protect U.S. airliners flying to and from foreign airports," the report said.

Shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles, or SAMs, have been in production since the 1960s. They are 5 to 6 feet long, weigh 35 to 40 pounds and can strike targets from four miles away, zeroing in on engine heat. An airplane flying at less than 15,000 feet would be in danger.

A recent United Nations report estimated that there are more than 500,000 portable SAMs, many in terrorist hands. On the black market, they cost $5,000 to $250,000, depending on age and model.

"The threat of seeing such missiles used by terrorist groups such as al-Qaida and their associates remains very high and persistent," U.N. officials said. They also expressed concern that the missiles can be easily concealed in 20-foot-long maritime containers routinely used for overseas shipments.

Among the most widely available missiles are Soviet-made SA-7s. In November 2002, two missed an Israeli aircraft departing Mombasa airport in Kenya. Another SA-7 believed to be from the same batch was fired at a U.S. military plane taking off from Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia, but it apparently misfired.


TOPICS: Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; airsec; airsecurity; manpads; missiledefense
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1 posted on 01/11/2004 6:22:47 PM PST by knak
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2 posted on 01/11/2004 6:24:44 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Freepers post from sun to sun, but a fundraiser bot's work is never done.)
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To: knak
This is that issue that we disagree on. I'm sorry, but I still feel the same way about it.
3 posted on 01/11/2004 6:33:53 PM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: knak
All the while 10 million illegals here get "free" money, and our jobs are moved to India, China, South America...What are we protecting?
4 posted on 01/11/2004 6:34:55 PM PST by Dallas59
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To: Cathryn Crawford
This is that issue that we disagree on. I'm sorry, but I still feel the same way about it.
5 posted on 01/11/2004 6:36:10 PM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: knak
Can you immagine those still burning flares coming down in a residentual area or on the Interstate? We really need to think that one over.
7 posted on 01/11/2004 7:00:36 PM PST by U S Army EOD (,When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: knak
Alright...

[RANT]
Anti-missile systems do exactly what for public safety? That's it...NOTHING! It's a feel good move that will cost the airlines hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions. A domestic airliner is NOT going to be shot down over US soil. An international flight will NOT be shot down by a shoulder-fired missile or something similar, unless it's flying into or out of Baghdad International.

Speaking as a pilot, there is no reason for this "upgrade" other than to make the sheeple feel safer. It adds complexity, weight, and possibly another crew member to a flight crew. Not to mention the systems training. Say a typical system weighs 50 to 100 lbs. That's almost nothing when you're talking about an 800,000lb airliner (747) that burns 24,000lbs of fuel per hour. 100lbs may not seem like a lot, and it's not. But that's a small passenger or quite a bit of mail or other cargo, and lost revenue for the already struggling airlines.

There is NO reason to force airlines to equip their aircraft with anti-missile systems. There is no justification for it.
[/RANT]

8 posted on 01/11/2004 7:10:58 PM PST by AntiKev (Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies. Tongue-tied, twisted, just an Earth-bound misfit.)
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To: U S Army EOD
To work, the systems would have to be set to automatic since nobody in the cockpit will see the incoming missile. Lot's of false alarms and flares everywhere. Better to go with some kind of dazzler. Something not mentioned is any security issues with proliferating possibly classified technology to get the things to work.
9 posted on 01/11/2004 7:13:05 PM PST by USNBandit
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To: USNBandit
Well, the issue that the regular media will not bring up is the low odds of these missles bringing down a large airliner.

I notice in threads that people are genuinely surprised when one hits an aircraft without destroying it; there's a general inaccurate belief that getting hit with a missle = destroyed.

I wouldn't want to be in an airliner hit with one, of course.

However, it's a cost-benefit issue; if the same amount of money was spent on intelligence to track down possible missle users, would that be more effective?
10 posted on 01/11/2004 7:17:41 PM PST by John H K
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To: knak
Strip searches in airports, missile defense systems on our aircraft, Patriot acts... what's wrong with this picture?

We have and still are allowing people from terrorist nations to enter the United States. We are allowing millions of unveted people to flood across our southern border. We allow cargo and trucking to enter this nation without inspection.

Folks, how about turning this into a proactive effort rather than a reactive one? We need to cut immigration into this nation to zero for a period of about three to five years. Then our dear homeland defense department needs to seal our borders and vet those who have already entered this nation.

We wouldn't be in this mess if those who establish our immigration and trade policies had used their heads for the last couple of decades, like we demanded that they do. Now the onus is on citizens, and what can be done to inconvenience them to 'fix' the problem.

Focusing on domestic flights, airports and citizens 'will never correct what veting immigrants and checking cargo should have and still could.'
11 posted on 01/11/2004 7:55:07 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: knak
This might eventually offer some degree of protection, but not cost effective protection in a commercial sense. Airliners are vulnerable for long periods of time, and from any one of millions of possible launch sites. A hit though does not necessarily equate to a kill, particularly on large aircraft with wing mounted engines.

A far more effective solution (excluding some new technology) would be to properly regulate our borders and ports and provide continuous airport boundary security. Since this is not politically viable to the gutless among us then I suppose it is likely airliners will be lugging around some out of date vacuum tube boat anchor gizmo masquerading as protection to the public at large.

I am no expert, and have never dodged anything other than a few bullets while airborne. I am confident, though, that the public (you) will be funding this show.
12 posted on 01/11/2004 8:46:46 PM PST by petertare (truth, justice and the American way)
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To: knak
"Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., are pushing legislation to install anti-missile systems on domestic airliners. "

I wonder what states have companies that manufacture these systems. Calif and NY, perhaps?

13 posted on 01/11/2004 9:29:42 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: U S Army EOD
Would flares protect a large commercial airliner on takeoff from an RPG?

What would flares have done for Flt 800?

14 posted on 01/11/2004 9:31:32 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
No, an RPG is unguided. Even though they call it RPG or Rocket Propelled Grenade it is actually a Super Caliber Recoiless Gun. The original RPG 2 and the German Panzerfaust just basically lobbed a shaped charge projectile out toward its target. It is not like our 2.36" or 3.5" bazooka that is actually a rocket. However the RPG 7 and other versions of basically the same item, do in fact have a rocket assist. The rocket is a tractor motor type rocket because the exhaust or venturies are up right behind the warhead with the solid fuze for the rocket being behind the exhaust. It does not have the exhaust in the rear like a normal rocket.

There would be nothing that would protect an airliner from a RPG. However the RPG has a limited range and is not really that fast.

The SA7 is like our old redeye. It is heat seaking and has a pretty good range and I think about a little less than 1/2 pound of explosives. I don't remember if it has an impact or proximety fuze but I seem to remember it being impact.

If a heat seaking missle had been fired at FLT800 and they saw it coming in time, it is possible flares could have saved it. If it was a missle and it was radar or beam guided the flares would have done no good.
15 posted on 01/11/2004 9:47:18 PM PST by U S Army EOD (,When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: AntiKev
Look its simple, all you have to do is get the load master to stand on the ramp with a flare pistol in his hand to watch for the missles. That is what we did with the AC 130s and C 130s in Vietnam in 1972 for the SA 7's. It worked great every once in a while and sometimes it didn't.

Just pick out the two stewdii who you think can handle a flare pistol the best, keep the rear doors cracked a bit until you can get about 10k and everything will be fine.
16 posted on 01/11/2004 9:52:49 PM PST by U S Army EOD (,When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: USNBandit
Sounds good unless you are the pilot behind looking at the dazzle device.
17 posted on 01/11/2004 9:55:02 PM PST by U S Army EOD (,When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: AntiKev; U S Army EOD
My understanding about aircraft avoiding missiles that the pilot must wait and wait until it gets close, dump flares or reflective material and then make a sharp turn out of the path.

This would mean keeping the seat belts on tight all the time while in the air. Granny and the kids won't go for this. The airline industry is going to be doomed.

18 posted on 01/11/2004 9:59:49 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Actually you just start dumping flares before you see anything and climb to altitude. If the bad guy fires he will probably end up locking on one of the flares.

If you are waiting to turn with a 747 at the last minute with the missle tracking you, the end of your day is not going to turn out like you hoped it would.
19 posted on 01/11/2004 10:04:57 PM PST by U S Army EOD (,When the EOD technician screws up, he is always the first to notice.)
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To: knak
Hrmmm... This stuff will work with the older systems, but will have very limited effect on late generation hardware.

There is a misconception how "heat-seeking" missiles actually work. Truth be told, we haven't fielded a genuine thermal homing missile in decades. Terminal guidance systems are using broad spectrum IR imaging to find their target i.e. it follows something that looks like an airplane as viewed in a broad IR spectrum. Laser spectrums are too narrow, and flares don't look like an airplane.

The primary defense against a modern homing system is intercept or to lose it (VERY tricky). It is following the thing that looks like an aircraft, not a heat source, and in the broad IR spectrum which makes the planes (and most other things) easier to track in adverse environments. Putting out-dated countermeasures on civilian aircraft simply isn't worth the money.

20 posted on 01/11/2004 10:09:00 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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