Posted on 01/10/2004 6:19:35 PM PST by NormsRevenge
Edited on 04/12/2004 6:03:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) - Chances are, Democratic Party consultants won't take credit for the hardest-hitting anti-Bush ad to air on network TV this month. That honor will likely go MoveOn.org, an online group that has become too potent for establishment politicians to ignore.
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
First of all. I don't have to answer why. To me it's worse. I don't need to justify that to anyone.
But, let's look at this. I don't know who these posters are that are saying the things you claim, so I can't even begin to speculate on what their reasoning is for saying something like that.
But take Hitler. He systematically rounded up and killed millions and millions of people. Plunged the whole world into a hellish war, the repurcussions of which are still be felt and will still be felt for a long time to come.
How does Bush rate with Hitler? I mean, there's no comparison at all. It's just a totally outrageous thing to say- even if it's just confined to a liberal internet forum. But for George Soros to hand over millions of dollars to MoveOn and give that sort of claim a national platform- it's leagues worse than some poster running around on this forum saying Bush has betrayed our country over immigration (or whatever comment it was that you saw).
That's why I originally said that if we were getting paid millions of dollars to say outlandish things like that, there would be a comparison. But, this is small forum. We fund our own ability to talk to each other. We're not about to go prime time anytime soon. We lack the scale of what MoveOn is trying to do.
The thing is, when you hear someone say something like that, you can argue with 'em. You can deconstruct their reasoning- perhaps change their mind. Probably not- if they really feel that way- but it's open to opportunity.
But the bottom line is- what MoveOn is doing is bad. Period. You can't wipe away the ugliness of what they're doing by pointing at a few people on this forum who are saying outrageous things. It's not like they cancel each other out. Wrong is wrong.
Granted. But neither need anyone take your opinions seriously, if you are either unable or unwilling (or both) to substantiate them, in open, honest debate. (I use the umbrella "you" here, of course. ANY of us face that same inevitable drawback.)
And, heading off the inevitable: clearly, you do wish your opinions taken seriously. You are posting them in a public forum, after all. (Or do you wish, rather, to be taken un seriously...?)
But, let's look at this. I don't know who these posters are that are saying the things you claim, so I can't even begin to speculate on what their reasoning is for saying something like that.
I could not conceivably have been any clearer, repeatedly, on either point. They are stating it in immigration-related threads all over this board -- really, it's scarcely difficult to look for them, after all; use the "Search" function -- and they are stating said things (e.g., that GWB is a "traitor" and "treasonous" and a "war criminal") because of his recent immigration proposal (NOT a law; NOT an Executive Order).
How does Bush rate with Hitler? I mean, there's no comparison at all
If you mean "the comparison is an absurd one": I agree with you, obviously. However: Hitler was a war criminal. MoveOn says Bush is a war criminal. Posters here say Bush is a war criminal. I fail to see where "war criminal" becomes any less insulting or wrong-headed, simply because Joe ConservativeGuy uses the phrase, instead of Michael Moore doing so.
It's just a totally outrageous thing to say- even if it's just confined to a liberal internet forum.
Again: agreed. But no LESS outrageous when uttered on an (ostensibly) CONSERVATIVE forum, when applied to a sitting Republican President. And I've yet to hear any convincing argument explaining why it's "better" (or "less bad") when we tar one of our own with it, quite frankly.
But, this is small forum. We fund our own ability to talk to each other. We're not about to go prime time anytime soon. We lack the scale of what MoveOn is trying to do.
Here, we disagree. This is (so far as I know) the single largest and most influential online conservative forum on the 'net. We are read regularly by Limbaugh, the staff at NRO, Andrew Sullivan, etcetera, etcetera.
Words "spoken" here are incredibly potent -- at least as much so, certainly, as any opinions uttered anywhere else on the political internet. As such: they become all the more potentially meaningful. We can both agree, surely, that it profits conservatives nothing to do our opponents' dirty work for them, yes...?
Wrong is wrong.
I'm making precisely that same argument. I just don't think you realize it yet. :)
It doesn't matter to me. You can take me seriously or not. I don't really care.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day. Or whatever.
I am amazed, but not surprised.
Misuse of taxpayer dollars.
Traitor may be a little strong too. However, what precisely do you say about someone that has overseen the expansion of gubbermint by 25% in 3 years, failed to veto even a single bill (esp. the noxoious CFR), is poised to facilitate easier access to our country by illegal immigrants, etc., etc.
Traitor may be a little strong. Maybe misguided or easily led might be a little more comfortable for you?
She does have authoritarian tendencies, of that there is no doubt.
But "Hitlerian?"
Well, that's a trick question. Certainly there have been many posters here who have done so, such as placing images of President Bush with a Hitlerian moustache, while jumping onto the DU-approved anti-immigration reform bandwagon. But whether those who advocate or support or excuse libertarianism, moral-liberalism, social-Darwinism, abortion, bigotry against any or all religions, corruption in the populace, policies which destroy the family, cop-killing, tax-cheating, and theft of intellectual property are really conservatives is open to debate.
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