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MoveOn.org becomes anti-Bush online powerhouse
Sac Bee ^ | 1/10/04 | Beth Fouhy - AP

Posted on 01/10/2004 6:19:35 PM PST by NormsRevenge

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:03:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) - Chances are, Democratic Party consultants won't take credit for the hardest-hitting anti-Bush ad to air on network TV this month. That honor will likely go MoveOn.org, an online group that has become too potent for establishment politicians to ignore.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2004; antibush; barfmewithaspoon; becomes; bushhaters; bushisnothitler; bushisnthitler; cpusa; hitlerad; hitlerads; lyingliar; lyingliars; mediabias; moveon; moveonorg; online; powerhouse
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
What you've yet to answer (again) is: why...?

First of all. I don't have to answer why. To me it's worse. I don't need to justify that to anyone.

But, let's look at this. I don't know who these posters are that are saying the things you claim, so I can't even begin to speculate on what their reasoning is for saying something like that.

But take Hitler. He systematically rounded up and killed millions and millions of people. Plunged the whole world into a hellish war, the repurcussions of which are still be felt and will still be felt for a long time to come.

How does Bush rate with Hitler? I mean, there's no comparison at all. It's just a totally outrageous thing to say- even if it's just confined to a liberal internet forum. But for George Soros to hand over millions of dollars to MoveOn and give that sort of claim a national platform- it's leagues worse than some poster running around on this forum saying Bush has betrayed our country over immigration (or whatever comment it was that you saw).

That's why I originally said that if we were getting paid millions of dollars to say outlandish things like that, there would be a comparison. But, this is small forum. We fund our own ability to talk to each other. We're not about to go prime time anytime soon. We lack the scale of what MoveOn is trying to do.

The thing is, when you hear someone say something like that, you can argue with 'em. You can deconstruct their reasoning- perhaps change their mind. Probably not- if they really feel that way- but it's open to opportunity.

But the bottom line is- what MoveOn is doing is bad. Period. You can't wipe away the ugliness of what they're doing by pointing at a few people on this forum who are saying outrageous things. It's not like they cancel each other out. Wrong is wrong.

61 posted on 01/11/2004 6:48:47 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
First of all. I don't have to answer why. To me it's worse. I don't need to justify that to anyone.

Granted. But neither need anyone take your opinions seriously, if you are either unable or unwilling (or both) to substantiate them, in open, honest debate. (I use the umbrella "you" here, of course. ANY of us face that same inevitable drawback.)

And, heading off the inevitable: clearly, you do wish your opinions taken seriously. You are posting them in a public forum, after all. (Or do you wish, rather, to be taken un seriously...?)

But, let's look at this. I don't know who these posters are that are saying the things you claim, so I can't even begin to speculate on what their reasoning is for saying something like that.

I could not conceivably have been any clearer, repeatedly, on either point. They are stating it in immigration-related threads all over this board -- really, it's scarcely difficult to look for them, after all; use the "Search" function -- and they are stating said things (e.g., that GWB is a "traitor" and "treasonous" and a "war criminal") because of his recent immigration proposal (NOT a law; NOT an Executive Order).

How does Bush rate with Hitler? I mean, there's no comparison at all

If you mean "the comparison is an absurd one": I agree with you, obviously. However: Hitler was a war criminal. MoveOn says Bush is a war criminal. Posters here say Bush is a war criminal. I fail to see where "war criminal" becomes any less insulting or wrong-headed, simply because Joe ConservativeGuy uses the phrase, instead of Michael Moore doing so.

It's just a totally outrageous thing to say- even if it's just confined to a liberal internet forum.

Again: agreed. But no LESS outrageous when uttered on an (ostensibly) CONSERVATIVE forum, when applied to a sitting Republican President. And I've yet to hear any convincing argument explaining why it's "better" (or "less bad") when we tar one of our own with it, quite frankly.

But, this is small forum. We fund our own ability to talk to each other. We're not about to go prime time anytime soon. We lack the scale of what MoveOn is trying to do.

Here, we disagree. This is (so far as I know) the single largest and most influential online conservative forum on the 'net. We are read regularly by Limbaugh, the staff at NRO, Andrew Sullivan, etcetera, etcetera.

Words "spoken" here are incredibly potent -- at least as much so, certainly, as any opinions uttered anywhere else on the political internet. As such: they become all the more potentially meaningful. We can both agree, surely, that it profits conservatives nothing to do our opponents' dirty work for them, yes...?

Wrong is wrong.

I'm making precisely that same argument. I just don't think you realize it yet. :)

62 posted on 01/11/2004 7:04:49 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
(Or do you wish, rather, to be taken un seriously...?)

It doesn't matter to me. You can take me seriously or not. I don't really care.

Have a nice day.

63 posted on 01/11/2004 7:13:25 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Susannah
"I remember seeing the following post about cpusa.org removing their link to moveon.org"

Thanks for the link - bookmarked! I hope someone on that thread saved the webpage in question for Rush, Hannity, etc..

64 posted on 01/11/2004 7:19:33 AM PST by Ben Hecks
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To: Prodigal Son
Your call; not mine.
65 posted on 01/11/2004 7:19:43 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Call?

Nevermind. You have a nice day.
66 posted on 01/11/2004 7:21:34 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
I'm already having a perfectly lovely day, thank you. You're simply making it a substantially more Dali-esque and surreal one, is all. :)

Have a nice day. Or whatever.

67 posted on 01/11/2004 7:29:55 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: terilyn
Really??? Joe Wilson?

I am amazed, but not surprised.

68 posted on 01/11/2004 7:41:42 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Thanks.
69 posted on 01/11/2004 7:43:01 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Cultural Jihad
Maybe YOU should.
70 posted on 01/11/2004 7:44:13 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: Libertina
Contact your county councilman or state assemblyman and complain about public institutions such as your local libraries being used in this way.

Misuse of taxpayer dollars.

71 posted on 01/11/2004 7:47:13 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: cyncooper; Doctor Raoul; NYC GOP Chick; firebrand; alisasny; Dutchy; n.y.muggs; Clemenza; ...
I can't do this one because i have a work commitment i cannot get out of. Otherwise, I'd be there. A sterling opportunity to show the Goron and MoveOn people for the fake, phony frauds they really are!
72 posted on 01/11/2004 7:53:57 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle; hellinahandcart
Well I don't know. I agree with you about the "war criminal" epithet being used on this forum. That one is bogus.

Traitor may be a little strong too. However, what precisely do you say about someone that has overseen the expansion of gubbermint by 25% in 3 years, failed to veto even a single bill (esp. the noxoious CFR), is poised to facilitate easier access to our country by illegal immigrants, etc., etc.

Traitor may be a little strong. Maybe misguided or easily led might be a little more comfortable for you?

73 posted on 01/11/2004 8:00:04 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: Prodigal Son
However, there have been many, many references to Hillary as Hitler. In name, and graphically.

She does have authoritarian tendencies, of that there is no doubt.

But "Hitlerian?"

74 posted on 01/11/2004 8:01:45 AM PST by sauropod (Graduate, Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training)
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To: sauropod
OK.
75 posted on 01/11/2004 8:07:20 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: terilyn
Thanks terilyn. I confess I skimmed over you post last night and saw it this morning when someone else responded to it. See my post #42 where I linked to Al Gore's August speech to Moveon, and he has another one coming up *this week* on global warming!

Your highlighting of the John Kerry (I remembered Joe Wilson's ties) Moveon link underscores the point. Independent group, no way!
76 posted on 01/11/2004 8:43:56 AM PST by cyncooper ("The evil is in plain sight")
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To: sauropod
Naw. The move to MoveOn.org is encouraged just for those who in a time of war claim that President Bush is a traitor and should be impeached. People with identical messages should stick together and make thir numbers more effective.
77 posted on 01/11/2004 10:34:49 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Prodigal Son

Well, that's a trick question. Certainly there have been many posters here who have done so, such as placing images of President Bush with a Hitlerian moustache, while jumping onto the DU-approved anti-immigration reform bandwagon. But whether those who advocate or support or excuse libertarianism, moral-liberalism, social-Darwinism, abortion, bigotry against any or all religions, corruption in the populace, policies which destroy the family, cop-killing, tax-cheating, and theft of intellectual property are really conservatives is open to debate.

78 posted on 01/11/2004 10:42:44 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
I haven't seen anything like that.
79 posted on 01/11/2004 10:59:27 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
And needless to say, I should have added to the list of faux conservatives, those who advocate murdering undocumented immigrants.
80 posted on 01/11/2004 11:00:36 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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