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Giant leap II: Bush to announce plan for Mars, Moon missions
Houston Chronicle ^ | January 9, 2004 | JOHN C. HENRY with Mark Carreau in California and Patty Reinert

Posted on 01/08/2004 11:19:24 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Some good stuff here. If it's done right it could open up a lot of opportunities for exploration and eventual colonization. By 'done right', I mean these programs should actually go somewhere after their initial missions are completed. I don't want them to end up like Apollo did, where we essentially went there, planted the flag, and then came home for over 30 years.
21 posted on 01/09/2004 5:59:07 AM PST by chimera
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To: aquawrench
Astronomy, cosmogrophy etc. is my first love, Bush is 2nd only to Reagan. A manned mission to mars is wrong, ill-advised, and silly.

Elaborate.

22 posted on 01/09/2004 6:31:53 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: chimera
This time to stay. On the Moon we will develop resources and learn to live off planet.
23 posted on 01/09/2004 6:32:40 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Exploration is for visionaries and people with stout hearts.

I think a friend of mine summed it up best about 10 years ago. He said "We're Americans, we should have been walking around Mars in the 1980s."

24 posted on 01/09/2004 6:35:53 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: newgeezer
Definitely time to pull my support from W if he does this and doesn't give me a marriage amendment.
25 posted on 01/09/2004 6:37:19 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: biblewonk
I can only guess this is W's way of throwing a bone to "conservatives" (the armchair-Captain-Kirk brand of "conservative"). That, and throwing some money Texas way.
26 posted on 01/09/2004 6:41:07 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
That would be a logical progression. Send out some manned exploration missions to Mars, but look at more permanent dwellings on the Moon. A realization of the Clarke-Kubrick vision of Clavius Base would be very sweet indeed.

Of all the things this country has lost over the preceding decades, one of the most important, and, indeed, perhaps the most vital, is our spirit of adventure, the yearning to go beyond what we now have and know, the longing to see what is over the next hill. It is a spirit that was born in mankind probably going back to the time the first caveman threw a log in a river and hopped on for the ride. It reached a zenith in the 1960s with our moon landings program, albeit driven by a geopolitical rivalry. Now is the time to revive that spirit, and do it for more altruistic, as well as practical, reasons.

27 posted on 01/09/2004 6:42:11 AM PST by chimera
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To: newgeezer
I can only guess this is W's way of throwing a bone to "conservatives" (the armchair-Captain-Kirk brand of "conservative"). That, and throwing some money Texas way.

Throwing the bone to conservatives. That's a good way to put it!

28 posted on 01/09/2004 7:24:59 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: newgeezer; biblewonk; aquawrench; Big Midget; ETERNAL WARMING
To all the people who think that going to the Moon/Mars is a waste of time, I'd like you to answer a question.

Do you think we shouldn't have gone to the moon the first time?

If you could go back and make it (a manned mission) not happen, would you do it?

If it's a big waste now, then it was a big waste then.

What say you?

29 posted on 01/09/2004 7:40:30 AM PST by Jotmo
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To: Jotmo; newgeezer
Do you think we shouldn't have gone to the moon the first time?

Yes

If you could go back and make it (a manned mission) not happen, would you do it?

Yes

If it's a big waste now, then it was a big waste then.

Correct.

30 posted on 01/09/2004 7:42:55 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: biblewonk
Is this just a government spending the money issue with you?

Or should it not have been done at all?

Do you believe that we gained nothing of value, or rather ENOUGH value, to justify it?

31 posted on 01/09/2004 8:03:02 AM PST by Jotmo
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To: chimera
Of all the things this country has lost over the preceding decades, one of the most important, and, indeed, perhaps the most vital, is our spirit of adventure, the yearning to go beyond what we now have and know, the longing to see what is over the next hill.

I was going to make a long post about how the country has been emasculated by liberal agendas and views that have been pushed over the past thirty years and how even many Conservatives have bought into it but it's too depressing (not meant to be sexist - emasculated in the sense of "To deprive of strength or vigor; weaken." ).

We are definitely not the country nor the adventuresome and risk-taking people we were 130 years ago (or some would even say 40 years ago). These days many are more concerned with themselves and thinking about today or yesterday, and not tomorrow and their children's and grandchildren's future. The liberals push this furher with their "everybody's a victim of something these days" garbage.

I still think there are many of us who still have the spirit to go further than we've ever gone.

32 posted on 01/09/2004 8:10:27 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: Jotmo
Is this just a government spending the money issue with you?

No not at all. Very much of what the government spends money on is justifiable. In a way even the useless manned space program is justifiable as was the project to build hydrodams to employ people during the depression. But if we are going to simply have the government make busywork I'd rather see it do something that really does have a payoff. The manned spaceprogram doesn't and all the so called spinoffs are hype.

Or should it not have been done at all?

I still vote for not at all and using the government money for something as usefull as hydro damns. Weather satellites maybe, or windmills or anything. Putting people on the moon was a multi billion in non adjusted dollars joyride. It was no different than winning a Hockey game against the Russians. It was no different than climbing mt Everest. These are fine for private enterprise but not for the government.

Do you believe that we gained nothing of value, or rather ENOUGH value, to justify it?

We took government money and put it back in the hands of people, just like the building of dams. That isn't all bad but I simply reject the spinoff lie used to continue the programs.

33 posted on 01/09/2004 8:19:39 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"You can use the existing infrastructure and be back on the moon in 5 to 10 years with a modest investment."

Ok, we have the expendables for the tonnage and the shuttle for the men.

Oops, scratch the shuttle for now. What happens when we are down to two? One? None? A "permananent" moon base really needs a permanent transportation system, and our only manned system is looking real marginal. All the plans to replace our manned system are based on the space station being all we ever do.

Looking at our expendables, I have a hard time imagining that such a modest increase in funding would cover even that end of things.

34 posted on 01/09/2004 8:41:38 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal
Check post #11.
35 posted on 01/09/2004 9:18:14 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The various models of the CEV would be 21st century versions of the 1960s Apollo spacecraft.

The biggest problem with the CEV is what is launching it. It doesn't exist, but would probably look like a gold plated version of an existing expendable. It will likely be Shuttle II: All the nightmares without the capability.

We have had forty years to develop a decent launcher. We are either unable or unwilling to do it. Without it, manned space is and expensive boondoggle doomed to irrelevancy.

36 posted on 01/09/2004 9:25:24 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: biblewonk
Hey, don't you realize we need to colonize the moon for strategic defense? ;O) ;O)
37 posted on 01/09/2004 9:44:10 AM PST by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 100.00%)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
At the time, the estimated cost was between $400 billion and $500 billion, a price tag too high for Congress, which scuttled the proposal.

That was disgusting, and that was when we knew old NASA was about done. New NASA is already being born.

38 posted on 01/09/2004 9:46:11 AM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: hopespringseternal
There always will be reasons or excuses not to go. I prefer to overcome the naysayers.
39 posted on 01/09/2004 9:50:16 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: RightWhale
Those who would bury any return will pull numbers out of their hat.
40 posted on 01/09/2004 9:51:26 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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