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About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind
January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

Posted on 01/07/2004 7:22:57 AM PST by Sabertooth

Edited on 01/07/2004 10:46:05 AM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

You may have observed the recent effort in the forum by the Lead Moderator to scrutinize and regulate the Illegal Alien threads, which started over here.

I’ve mixed it up a lot on these threads in the two-plus year I’ve been at FR, as I have some strong feelings about the subject of Illegal Aliens. While I like to think I’ve generally kept my cool, there have certainly been occasions when I haven’t.

That said, there have been plenty of occasions where I’ve attempted to engage sincere posters who did not share my opinions, only to have them jumped on by angry posters who did. In the past I’ve made posts on threads and requests by Freepmail requesting that the more aggressive posters cool their jets… to mixed results.

I’ve also seen posts suggesting that the borders be mined, which I think is stupid, hyperbolic spleen, or posts referring to the President as “Jorge Arbusto,” which stopped being funny years ago, and is now just antagonistic. It doesn’t matter that Vicente Fox once called him that in a friendly fashion, no one on the fence regarding Illegals is going to be persuaded by ad hominem rhetoric.

On the other hand, I’ve also observed a shifting coalition of posters who are less than sincere on the other side of the debate; who are prone to using Democrat talking points to smear posters who are concerned about Illegals as anti-immigrant and closet racists. When reading their posts, one half-wonders if they aren’t moles for the L.A. Times.

Their perceptions of “bigots, bigots everywhere” and posts in that vein have also been toxic to the Illegal Alien threads, and such was often the purpose of their baiting. Success was measured in flame wars, bannings, suspensions, and getting threads nuked or moved to the backroom.

It’s been my contention, and I’ve made the point to the Moderators on a number of occasions, that moving threads to the backroom only rewarded those who don’t want Illegals discussed in this forum, and encouraged their trolling behavior.

I’ll stipulate again that my own hands haven’t always been clean in picking fights and thread jumping. I’ll also reveal that about a year or so ago I attempted to organize a call, via Freepmail, for some self-restraint on these threads. Toward that end, I contacted eight fairly high-profile posters, not all of whom were regulars on the Illegal threads, and whose opinions varied widely on the issue, with the idea of some sort of joint letter. The response was uniformly positive, but the details proved to be unwieldy, however, and the effort died on the vine.

Since then I would come and go from the Illegal Alien threads, and observe the ebbs and flows of all of the behavior I saw above.

A few months ago, I took a different tack, and got into a running conversation over my concerns with the Lead Moderator, through Freepmail.

Last week an Illegal Alien thread was moved to the Backroom, in another episode of the process I described above. This irked me a little more than usual, given the imminence of President Bush’s announcement of a new direction in immigration policy, and I ranted a little more than usual to the Lead Mod.

He was receptive to some of my criticisms, and decided to try the new approach that is now the matter at hand. He posted his account last night (emphasis added)…


To: All
I just got a Freepmail. Without posting it or who it was from, the gist of it was as follows:

1) That the timing of this effort was suspicious.

2) That this person feels the actions taken have shifted the emphasis of the forum from conservative oriented to party oriented.

I wanted to share with you my response:

I am being evenhanded on the matter. There have been those on one side of the issue have been warned about personal attacks and baiting. There have been those on the other side who have been warned about the same.

There has been one suspension, of someone who decided he was going to repost things which had been pulled. He has no one to blame but himself.

There has been one banning, of a person who said that there was no way he was going to abide by the way things are going to be. Once again, it was his choice and if he changes his mind he can mail Jim and his account will be restored.

The timing, you can have whatever suspicions you want. The fact is that for months, someone who is mostly on your side of the issue tried to get me to do more on these threads, hating how they get pulled when they turn into flame wars and how they get backroomed when they turn into flame wars. He would point to examples of baiting. He would point to personal attacks. Sometimes I would point out the things going the other way. Finally, he convinced me and I decided to give this approach a try.

To be honest, I think it is hilarious that some think I had some idea that some policy was coming out of the White House. It is good to be thought of as that well connected, I guess, but it sadly has no basis in reality.

I am going to post my reply on the thread. I won't quote your mail or your name, although I will paraphrase it.

Regards, LM

That is all.
262 posted on 01/06/2004 6:03:37 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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So, if it’s not clear already, the Lead Moderator’s statements in this post are 100% accurate and legitimate. The timing of this effort was a direct result of my conversation with him, and was not the result of some conspiracy by Free Republic higher-ups, or Karl Rove, or Vicente Fox, or whatever current dark speculation is now popular.

Nor is there any overarching effort to censor a wide-ranging debate on Illegals, as far as I’ve seen. In the context of the current effort underway on the Illegal Alien threads, I haven’t received even the slightest hint that there are subjects that are off limits to me in this regard, nor have I been given the impression that there can’t be vigorous debate, and I’m hardly a party-liner in this.

Now, I’m certain that some will find it to be an abomination that I would cooperate with a Moderator, or he with me, but, as a friend of mine likes to say, there you have it.

As for the results, they’ve been a bit mixed so far, in my estimation. Not, however, because the Mods haven’t made an effort to be evenhanded. I’ve seen a few folks I warned to keep cool get swift warning when they didn’t, and I’ve seen some of the usual baiters get cease and desist orders. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the effort to raise the tone of the debate on the Illegal Aliens isn’t sincere.

Are the Mods doing things exactly as I’d like? Nope, nor do I expect them to do so. I’ve got strong opinions and subjectivities here, so the standard of my assessment is the combined words and deeds of the Mods on these threads to correct all offenders. Things look promising thus far.

However, I do think that there are posters of diverse opinions who need to reconsider their ways, and take this effort to heart.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: filipinochicksrock; immigrantlist; itsallaboutme; memememememememe; oneissuevoter; pleasebehisopus; saberbunny; saberisnotanative; snowtooth
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To: Sabertooth
...or Vicente Fox, or whatever current dark speculation is now popular.

Reliable sources tell me that Vincente Fox and George W. Bush are actually brothers, separated at birth.

481 posted on 01/12/2004 1:45:40 PM PST by searchandrecovery (America - Welcome to Sodom & Gomorrah West)
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To: Sabertooth
I must admit you have a case for skepticism about blue cards just being the caterpillar stage for green cards given the administrations lax attitude about enforcing deportation orders. Maybe one can blame the judges for not holding those who are adjudicated as being subject to deportation. I don't know the ins and outs on that. Perhaps you do.

As always it is a pleasure doing business with you. I don't know why some others find it so difficult. :)

482 posted on 01/12/2004 5:44:34 PM PST by Torie
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To: Sabertooth; Zipporah; gubamyster; FairOpinion; FoxFang; FITZ; moehoward; Nea Wood; Joe Hadenuf; ...
Don't know if you've seen Saber's post?
483 posted on 01/13/2004 4:05:11 AM PST by JustPiper (Register Independent and Write-In Tancredo for March !!!!)
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To: Sabertooth
On the other hand, I’ve also observed a shifting coalition of posters who are less than sincere on the other side of the debate; who are prone to using Democrat talking points to smear posters who are concerned about Illegals as anti-immigrant and closet racists. When reading their posts, one half-wonders if they aren’t moles for the L.A. Times.

An operation IS definitely underway. After my post about the "Mexican Mindset" pointing out that many Mexicans grow up observing the adults in their lives continually lying was pulled because of the vitrol posted by some, I received an interesting mail message from new_cruelty.

First, this individual tried to disparage my writing ability. I found this to be odd as I have in my life already worked as a newspaper editor for THREE different newspapers and have the M.A. in Journalism/Photography. Then, after telling n.c. to leave me alone, the individual responded by saying it was a "moot point" to argue as the thread was pulled anyway...as if that were the goal. The very foundations of this society are under attack. Our values, our freedoms, everything is deliberately being undermined by someone VERY evil. However, as my very observant wife noted, the people trying to help SOMEONE get control will have no part in the "new" society. They will find themselves, too, on the outside looking in.

484 posted on 01/13/2004 5:14:25 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
Edit: vitrol = vitriol
485 posted on 01/13/2004 6:01:29 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: theFIRMbss
As a rule of thumb, poster, assume that all good public High Schools in the US were closed in 1958
486 posted on 01/13/2004 12:55:18 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: Kenny Bunk
>As a rule of thumb, poster, assume that all good public High Schools in the US were closed in 1958

Ayn Rand used to say
philosophy was a hand --
the thumb of the hand

of philosophy
is epistemology.
The index finger

is metaphysics.
The middle finger, ethics.
The ring finger is

politics, and the
little finger, aesthetics.
Your "rule of thumb," then

is something more like
a ring finger gesturing
at teenagers than

anything useful
for adults. But then, I'm class
of '78...

(And while we're at it
surely it puts me right off
being called "poster" ... )

487 posted on 01/13/2004 1:52:08 PM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: theFIRMbss
Obvious typo. Meant to say Kudos to the class of '78!
488 posted on 01/13/2004 2:20:18 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: TaxRelief; Sabertooth; hchutch; staytrue; RaceBannon; Joe Hadenuf; Destro
How many legal immigrants should we allow into the country? How will they be chosen?

Why these simple questions are a piece of cake to answer! Exactly whom to allow in and whom to "restrict" shall be HC's decision. We certainly would not wish to entrust this power to anyone whose motives were impure.

You ask, "Who decides that?" Why, HC of course. (With some help available from Loretta Sanchez, Vicente Fox, and those who absolutely 'need' Mexican labor for jobs 'no American will do.')

489 posted on 01/13/2004 2:29:40 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: Cultural Jihad
Canadians would be much worse than Mexicans or Guatemalans, because they demand a socialist world with a fence around it. None of my (originally) Honduran friends mix well with Salvadorans, they think they are all crazy. Evidently they started a war over a soccer game.
490 posted on 01/16/2004 7:09:41 AM PST by steve8714
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To: BushCountry
As to us being a nation of immigrants, I wonder how many people realize that the number immigrants as a percentage to the population is less today than in the 20s, 30s, 40s, ect...?

How can this be? Allegedly, there is an endless conga line of immigrants carrying Mexican comic books flooding our "boarders"...

491 posted on 01/09/2005 8:47:42 AM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Sabertooth; Travis McGee; Pelham; Mr. Mojo

Blast from the past...

Marine inspector...
I wonder if he’s still alive


492 posted on 06/03/2021 6:11:15 PM PDT by wardaddy (Feel my warmth)
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To: wardaddy; Travis McGee; Mr. Mojo

Sabertooth was a real warrior. He was banned around the same time that you and Travis got it. Speak up against no borders Bush and you’d lose your head.

I think that the only reason I survived that extended purge is that I caught on early to what Howlin and her Squad were doing. A truly nasty bunch of witches. I avoided getting drawn in to the traps they were setting.


493 posted on 06/03/2021 8:15:02 PM PDT by Pelham (Liberate the Democrats from their Communist occupation)
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