About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind

January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

Does anyone who opposes YOUR position on immigration favor "Open Borders"?

Answering questions with questions, again?

Still hesitant to address my post at #246?

Still, I'll be sporting... no.

Now, would you please clarify your definition of "immigration restrictionists," and address my follow up questions at #246, which I repeated at #418?

You see, I don't want to silence you; that's why I keep repeating my questions, so as to better understand and illuminate your position.

[cgk]

Thanks for this. Exceptional and well-written. I haven't read it all yet, but I intend to.

Seems to me you can fill in the blank on the topic for a number of issues here at FR that spark these kinds of "debates". And no, they aren't ALL trolls.

[Pelham]

Well gee, hchoochoo, why don't you tell us what you think of Hitler's quotes?

We have yet to see you disavow Hitler.

If I employ the 'logic' that you find so appealing, notably the Argument From Silence, your failure to disavow him means you must support him.

I'd like to know, and I'm sure others would as well.

On the other hand, you could pick up a copy of Copi's Logic, study the section on fallacies, and find out why no one with even an elementary knowledge of logic is buying your nonsense.

[Travis McGee]

I'm sure that many opportunistic Quislings are getting themselves field position today for the coming of the new power structure. Very good point. And of course the left in general just despises America's dominance of the world stage today, and is working actively to weaken their own nation. (Except most of them consider themselves "citizens of the world" in their hearts.)

[hchutch]

I find it interesting that is is now going from accusations of disrupting to being called a Quisling with what appears to be a threat of violence...

[NittanyLion]

Your restraint in dealing with an obvious disrupter, is admirable.

[archy]

I find it interesting that is is now going from accusations of disrupting to being called a Quisling with what appears to be a threat of violence...

Oh, Hutch, it's not YOU whose actions recall those of Norwegian Nazi co-activist and sympathizer and traitor Vidkun Quisling, previously A U.S. Army officer between the Great War and the sequel to that conflict. I may have overlooked something you've said, but note that both such inclinations and the power against others has to be exercised for the example and term of Quisling to really apply.

But do note that predictions of very probable forthcoming violence are no longer required; we've already had several FReepers murdered, and I'd hope that every one takes steps to fully protect themselves as effectively as possible.

[Sabertooth]

I find it interesting that is is now going from accusations of disrupting to being called a Quisling with what appears to be a threat of violence...

Hi hchutch,

You're back!

I find it interesting that a poster who was so concerned about being silenced, fell so silent when it came time to clarify some of your positions, as well as your definition of "immigration restrictionists," which you've alluded to on this thread.

Would you care to answer the follow up questions I posted to you at #246, to which I recalled your attention #416, reposted at #418, and recalled again at #421, and again with this post?

Please, take this opportunity to not be silent about your positions, in your own words.

[hchutch]

You will forgive me if I am less than reassured by that.

[hchutch]

No more than anyone who opposes you on the issue favors "open borders".

[Sabertooth]

No more than anyone who opposes you on the issue favors "open borders".

OK, I guess I was a little confusing, as I've only reposted my request for you to clarify your definition of what you call immigration restrictionists twice on this page, so I'll do it a third time.

hchutch: In addition, if one seeks to LOWER the current quotas, is that not advocating restriction? Isn't "restrictionist" an appropriate adjective for those who advocate that position? Why do you object to that term if it is accurate?

Sabertooth: Well, let's carry your logic a little further... aren't the current immigration levels retrictive? In a sense, aren't any immigration laws at all, "restrictionist?"

If we have no restrictions at all on immigration, don't we have open borders?

So, is everyone who's not for open borders an "immigration restrictionist," in your lexicon?

I'll take your quote at the top of this post as an answer to the last question, but I'm still unclear as to your actual definition. Maybe I missed it in the stream of "it's like the Wall Street Journal's," and "first answer this question for me," etc.

The question I'd like a clear answer to, hchutch, is what is your definiton of an "immigration restrictionist?"

[hchutch]

I think I defined it the first time...

I'll provide examples of restrictionists: Federation of American Immigration Reform is one. I consider Tom Tancredo to be another. So is Michelle Malkin.

I hope that clarifies things.

[hchutch]

For the record, since Sabertooth was NOT willing to seek review of my conduct on this thread, I asked the Lead Moderator is what I was doing had crossed the line into disruption. The answer is below:
"No, I do not think it does in any way shape or form."

I'm going to use this post as a chance to place Sabertooth on notice. Review has determined my conduct on this thread to be acceptable. I will view any further claism that I am disrupting this thread to be a personal attack and will act appropriately.

[Sabertooth]

Sabertooth didn't claim you were disrupting the thread, Sabertooth believes you are trying to dodge some pertinent questions about your words, and positions, on the subject of Illegal Aliens.

Sabertooth is aware that you have very dramatic concerns that you might be silenced, and so Sabertooth is doing his best to give you every opportunity to clarify your postion.

Sabertooth is willing to very patiently ask you, once again, some questions about a term you're using on these threads.

What do you mean when you refer to people as "immigration restrictionists," either generally, or specifically?

What is your definition for your term, "immigration restrictionist?"

How do we know an "immigration restrictionist" when we see one?

[staytrue]

the kindergartners sang two songs in Spanish! For the love of God! Have them master the ENGLISH language first!

I have found for me that I learn best with a continuos effort of learn, repeat and review over a broad number of subjects instead of the learn a, then b, then c.

When I practice golf, I do not learn putting, then irons, then driving. I try all three, repeat all three, then review all three. In basketball, I do not learn dribbling, then learn shooting, then learn passing. I try to improve all three.

I believe that having the children learn english, then math, then science, then foreign language would be a mistake. I believe that throw it all at them, repeat it, push forward, go back and review, then throw it at them again, repeat, push , go back and review, etc. is the proper way to go.

That does mean learning a little spanish, chinese, or fill in the blank with subject of your choice, well before english is mastered.

I suspect, you would normally agree with this, but the mexican invasion has made you so mad that you reflexively scratch spanish off the list.

[staytrue]

Hey joe, how are things hanging ? You and I have not mixed it up on an immigration thread for a while now. I think we should show these amatuer flame warriors how personal insults are really done.

I'm just kidding. Thought I'd add a little humor.

We do seem to share an interest in space exploration, even if we disagree on immigration.

Which brings me to my real point. No matter how many insults we freepers hurl at each other, we can agree on more than a few things.

The best government is the least government.

Tax cuts are better than tax increases.

Rinos are better than liberal democrats.

Tort reform must be enacted.

[staytrue]

dont pay taxes

What you meant to say is that they don't pay income or ssi taxes. They do pay sales tax, property tax embedded in the rent, toll, cigarette tax, telephone tax, business taxes that are embedded in the price of the product, alchol tax, gasoline tax, etc.

Further, they pay about the same amount of income and ssi taxes as an american citizen would pay at that income level which is basically zero.

[staytrue]

But if she BREAKS the LAW then she has to PAY the PRICE!

Time to arrest every waiter or waitress who did not declare all their tips to the IRS. They have to pay the price don't they ? Is it fair to regular taxpayers who pay tax on all of their income ?

Did I mention that I don't think we have enough jail space for an extra 20 million people ? Besides, I like going to restaurants and no one would be there to wait on me.