[tcuoohjohn]

Let us try to be reasonable men. Since were are both interested in this subject lets try an experiement.

Give me your best explanation of FDR knew and the supporting evidence behind that assertion. Please try to avoid irrelevancies like the Lusitania, Liberty et al.In sum a clear , concise, and compelling argument supported by evidence. Avoid should haves, must haves, would haves, and could haves. Deal only in evidence. Avoid the weight of tome argument (eg there have been 19 books " proving" FDR knew etc..all this proves is 19 books have been written) Avoid the fallacy of reference arguments ( eg "Prove that FDR didn't know." I made no assertion. You are making the assertion therefore it is your assertion to prove. Proving the nonexistence of some thing is a classical fallacy) Please try to avoid what I call the OOOOoooWWwwwEeeeeOOOOo Method, in which thin tenuous connections are made between equally nebulous data in a general spirit of 'conspiracy'thinking.

Best of luck..

I will respond to your precis with close attention provided it is a clear, logical, and unambiguous analysis.

[jamaksin]

At law, generally in your first year criminal law course, are given some wonderful examples of "evidence" - perhaps you know them.

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In a nutshell, one such example is rendered as:

Did you see Bubba bite off Tubba's ear?

No, your Honor, I did not.

Well, then, how can you say that Bubba did indeed bite off Tubba's ear, if as you stipulate, you did not see him do it? Please explain?

Your Honor, I saw Bubba spit it out ...

[Often another example is used - the "dropped" item - say a piece of chalk ..., but you may get the point.] Oh, the point ... like mathematical induction, evidentiary proof is permitted via indirect means. I can "prove" someone is dead without having to produce the body - another example. Kinda' like using a thermocouple to determine the termperature of a blast furnace ... it is done indirectly.

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For, FDR ... and from many more that 19 texts ... nearly 200+ was my last count on the topic of Pearl Harbor ...

A. "This means war!" ... with Harry "The Hop" Hopkins present, and while Commander-in-Chief ... no ALERT is given.

B. Stark ... " ... everything I did was ordered." Stark had one superior. [You might see Gannon's text from a letter from Kimmel to Stark which was not ever sent.]

C. Marshall ... where was he the night of December 6/7, 1941 ... and why did he say his loyalty was to FDR suppassed that to the US Constitution?

D. Joseph Leib's 1984 article ... " ... What the media Won't Tell You ..." - or who knew and when.

A whole lot of spitting a'goin on ... Conan Doyle would be proud.

And let's do not neglect all those identified but still classified materials ... recall even that letter from Sappho to Kramer points to a cover-up ... and these were in situ intelligence officers ... It is a shame we cannot ask their opinion of Stinnett or Wilford ... so it goes

Do I expect a document signed by FDR with a notary seal ... nope - to direct.

So, again you were saying ...

[Taliesan]

Good luck. The inability to distinguish possibility from probability is the genetic marker of the tinfoil fraternity. It is incurable. They look normal to each other. They should be encouraged to talk and marry among themselves.