Immigration IS the foundation of America! The day we deny that is the day America FALLS

United Press International Via Cox.Net ^ | 1/6/2004 | Backslidendemocrat

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

"The New Colossus"

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land, Here at our sea-washed, sunset-gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose fame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome, her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin-cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she, With silent lips. "GIVE ME YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR HUDDLED MASSES YEARNING TO BREATHE FREE, THE WRETCHED REFUSE OF YOUR TEEMING SHORE; SEND THESE, THE HOMELESS, TEMPEST-TOST TO ME, I LIFT MY LAMP BESIDE THE GOLDEN DOOR!" November 2, 1883

Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Thanks....I believe that is a compliment.....but unfortunately, I find that most here on FR believe that idealism = communism. What I believe is that most people don't realize how much of a balance between capitalism, socialism, and communism America really is today. If you simply read the 10 planks of the communist manefesto by Karl Marx you will find that all 10 planks are firmly established within the US today. The American people have always been taught to loath communism as baaaaddddd and socialism as baaaaddd. Well there is good and bad in all things and with all things not every thing is always possible or plausible. Communism was very devestating to agricultural industries in many third world countries. It rarely works to ask the whole to succumb to the mediocrity of the few. Most people are competitive by nature, but then how do we explain all of the Communistic policies that have been introduced and legistlatively passed into law here in capitalistic America....Well, we are the melting pot...and I guess old habits die hard don't they. I know this...we will deal with immigration (legal or illegal) one way or another. No getting around it. We built it...and they are coming. Best we all prepare for that day.

Thanks for the reply

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Your reply is refreshing! It is a view point from an angle so few have seen and many refuse to see due to the hate and anger they have over this issue. We built this great country and I promise you no matter how hard we make it they will continue to find a way to come (legal or illegal). This to me is no different than the tremendous amount of money that we spend to collect and maintain a progressive tax policy (Billions). Scrap the code and go to a flat tax. If people don't comply you can still collect at the employer level either way. And the war on drugs, the money and resources that are spent to fight that is astronomical. I don't condone it, but we throw people in jail for simple possession and use. We made thousands of new criminals with prohibition only to find that it was the wrong policy, why is this so different. We still have those who drink and drive, but they would be drinking and driving if it was illegal to drink period. Yikes, I quess I got on the soap box a little....anyway, we will deal with immigration one way or the other. I just hope it is on our terms and not someone elses later.

Thanks for the reply!

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Those who immigrated fairly or legally should be the first to recieve any consideration for citizenship. To identify a guess worker so that you can now tax, and track their presence is a plus. This does not mean they automaticly get citizenship or SS or anything that this country on the state or the federal level has for those who do what is right. To solve the 8 million problem, we will have to be creative and just.

As far as the nation being in a founding or established state, I have to disagree. We (America) are oh so young in the global history of governments and nations. Problem is you can't tell Americans that or you can't usually get them to see from the angle most foreigners see it from. To most in the Arab world we are but a babe or an infant in the spectrum of time. Europe is no different either. Just try and keep the open mind you have shown you have and watch....things will work out for the best for all. Bush is sticking his neck out to solve a problem that many only tiptoe around for fear of isolating their base. If republicans stay home over this issue then they desire the next 8 years of extreme liberalism that will no doubtfully be shoved down their throats

Thanks for the reply!

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Can you spell I-M-M-I-G-R-A-T-I-O-N? Naaah, apparently not.... What do you base you accusation of intellectual dishonesty and delusion on. It is I who is calling for reform in the current policies that you refuse to recognise are a complete failure. The estimated 8 million undocumented immigrants who now live here are the proof of the failure of policy, but you would just like for them to disappear....yea...somebody else shoot them at the border not me is your possition. Somebody else round them up and throw them out of the country, and don't you dare send me the bill, right, is that your position? or do you have some ideas or concepts to build your case of accusation on. Please.....don't just one line me....that's kinda rude don't you think.

Thanks for the reply!

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Immigration is Immigration....(legal or illegal). They are coming because we sent out the beacon that tracks to our shores. No matter how hard you make it for immigrants to get here they will continue to come. Even if you decide to start sinking there ships in shark infested waters, gunning them down as they cross the boarder, or fingerprinting them, tagging them with a digital gps tracking device, and taking 90% of everything they own or make. Their comming and its funny how people like you get hung up in the legalistict jargon of the issue. Hyphenated pseudo Americans....social parasite illegal immigrants....vs real Americans...hmmmm is that like the only good indian is a dead indian?.....or is the indian the real American? What is a Hyphenated pseudo American? Is that some kind of code language your using to try and fool or confuse us?

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration.....Immigration....Immigration....There I feel better now. Sorry Hila was there something you wanted to discuss, talk about, or a point you wanted to elaborate on?

[FITZ]

Okay --- well the Native Americans are descended from people who crossed over a land bridge from Asia. So they're immigrants too apparently.

[FITZ]

other than the US who have yet to taste the sweetness of freedom and prosperity are truely ready and willing to die for it.

The problem is ----- they are willing to die for money --- for US dollars and will allow themselves to be locked in unventilated semi-trailers and boxcars when it's 105 degrees or come through the desert in 110 degree heat with no water. If you can die for money, you should be willing to fight for freedom and reform.

[FITZ]

I have a question for you. I don't believe in shooting people coming over the border ---- for example Patrick Buchanan was making a point one time --- he illegally crossed into Mexico through a hole in the fence and came back over to the USA. Had there been a Mexican agent --- it would have been wrong for him to shoot him --- however --- did Buchanan break Mexican law? Do they have a right to refuse him a visa for what he did? Or because he chose to break the law then did he have a right to do whatever else he might have like while over there in Mexico?

[Beck_isright]

"Immigration is Immigration....(legal or illegal)."

SO in your world:

Rape is rape (legal or illegal)
Murder is murder (legal or illegal)
Robbery is robbery (legal or illegal)
Stock swindles is stock swindles (legal or illegal)
Government corruption is government corruption (legal or illegal)

So since all of those things will happen every day also, there's no point in trying to stop it. Ok everyone, we've got an endorsement to stop paying our taxes.

[dhs12345]

My scenario is a guess at what might happen. However, so many other things could happen, too and send us down a different path.

If certain types of food became too expensive, I would simply not purchase them. This assumes that the type of food is not a necessity.

[F16Fighter]

"[Y]ou would just like for them to disappear....yea...somebody else shoot them [illegal immigrants] at the border not me is your possition. Somebody else round them up and throw them out of the country, and don't you dare send me the bill, right, is that your position? or do you have some ideas or concepts to build your case of accusation on. Please.....don't just one line me....that's kinda rude don't you think.

Thanks for the reply!"

Who said ANYTHING about "shoot[ing]" illegals at the border? Coincidentally, what was it again that I "accused" you of?? That's right -- being "intellectually dishonest AND delusional"...I rest my case.

Now as far as "rounding" said illegals up and "throwing them out of the country," that's THE bottomline solution. The means is what has to be worked out, while the cost is inconsequential. Afterall, American sovereignty, respect for, and enforcement of the law depends on it -- OR can you readily admit YOU would indeed surrender your state, town and your home to invading marauders -- just because they are in already in place on your sofa??

Gee, I hope my reply was long enough -- yet not too "rude" -- I'd hate to think that I was 'politically incorrect' for the sake of making a point.

[F16Fighter]

"SO in your world:

Rape is rape (legal or illegal) Murder is murder (legal or illegal) Robbery is robbery (legal or illegal) Stock swindles is stock swindles (legal or illegal) Government corruption is government corruption (legal or illegal)

So since all of those things will happen every day also, there's no point in trying to stop it. Ok everyone, we've got an endorsement to stop paying our taxes."

Scary world, ain't it??

The template for this "world" is Bubba Klintoons's is it not? ;-)

[Beck_isright]

"The template for this "world" is Bubba Klintoons's is it not? ;-)"

It does sound like it, doesn't it...

[Little Ray]

I have, after careful examination, concluded that I have no problem with immigration, legal or otherwise. I have a serious problem with the welfare state and the behavior of some of our illegal aliens.
Illegal aliens are using the services of the welfare state at rate that grossly exceeds their portion of the population. They are NOT paying their way, no matter what anybody says. This is causing problems like the emergency rooms and trauma centers having to close, because they are not getting paid by or for the illegals they are forced to treat.
Further more, many immigrants have a destructive disregard for law and property as seen by the large number of illegals incarcerated, and by the destructive effects of their invasion where they cross private property.
I also resent the fact that they are not assimilating. I am NOT going to learn Spanish. And they d@mn well ought to be cheering the American soccer team, not the Mexican one.

Since I don't see the welfare state going anywhere in the foreseeable future, and the Mexican separatist movements are bit more obvious than any attempts at assimilation (its east to miss all those guys in pickup trucks), I think the illegals need to go and stringent, heck, LETHAL means should be used to secure the borders.
President Bush is valiantly and (IMHO) foolishly trying for a "Third Way(tm)"; where the illegals will, at least, pay SOME of their way. I think this has been tried, unsuccessfully, and I don't think it will work this time. It will (IMHO) cause more illegal immigration and more problems.

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

I agree with the issues around the welfare state. People must stop being rewarded for doing nothing at the citizen level first. If we were to ask or make contingent upon recieving welfare aid that the recipient work a designated number of hours doing labor that the state has listed on a needs sheet then perhaps we would start a small spark that would one day get back to all...citizens and immigrants that there ain't no free rides period. Perhaps that may stop some of the immigration from the illegal side. They continue to come because we the American public continue to do nothing to change the systems status quo.

Thanks for your reply and I share your positions in heart. I know that if we do not do something soon it may be too late in the next 10 to 20 years.

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

No you could never be too rude, as long as you give me more than a one liner. The shooting at the border phrase was tongue and cheek, meant to draw you into the debate a little further. Nobody is invading my state, town, or my home. They (most all immigrants) are willing participants, work hard, and contribute, and I am honored to have the ones who have taken time to build a relationship with me and my family as guest in my home. So, yeah there sitting on my sofa. Does that scorch your bottom or what? I don't ask them to show me their green card, papers, or whatever you think would be necessary to prove they are not the enemy. America is not a police state...at least not yet. What appears evident to me is people like you who really hate all immigrants, but know that directing your hate and anger at the legal ones is not acceptable, so you focus all of that negative energy on the ones who are not legal. Not once yet have you talked about immigration in a positive point of view. I know illegal immigration is a problem, but I'm willing to accept that we must change things to solve it. You hold on to the old status quo system that hasn't worked and won't work in the future because it serves the means to your end....and that is the despising of all immigrants in the United States. Nothing coincidental about this...you can rest your case all you want, meanwhile they still come and your dutifully elected officials continue to neglect to do their job of enforcing the existing policies and laws. Systems broke....needs fixed....must reform before it is too late. I give it 10 to 20 years at the current state. You, you keep calling me dishonest and delusional while you stare at yourself in the mirror.

Good Day!

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Wow, I should rest my case now if you really believe that illegal immigration is eqivalent in the criminal statue to rape, murder, corruption, etc. No wonder there's no discussing or debating a solution to this issue. Oh, well...we built it, they will continue to come, and a larger percentage of Americans will be pissed because somehow they (immigrants) are taking something from them in their eyes. Too bad most people see it that way.

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Or you could grow that type of food...couldn't you. That's what most Americans use to do at the turn of the 19th and 20th century. There are options if you are willing to look at them.

Thanks for the reply!

[nepdap]

Suppose someone broke into your house because they needed a place to live?

Actually, it's even worse than that. Suppose they ALREADY had a place to live, but they just decided that your place (that YOU worked to build) is better, so they broke in, and expected you to feed and clothe them. With a smile on your face. G-r-r-r-r.