Immigration IS the foundation of America! The day we deny that is the day America FALLS

United Press International Via Cox.Net ^ | 1/6/2004 | Backslidendemocrat

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

"The New Colossus"

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land, Here at our sea-washed, sunset-gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose fame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome, her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin-cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she, With silent lips. "GIVE ME YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR, YOUR HUDDLED MASSES YEARNING TO BREATHE FREE, THE WRETCHED REFUSE OF YOUR TEEMING SHORE; SEND THESE, THE HOMELESS, TEMPEST-TOST TO ME, I LIFT MY LAMP BESIDE THE GOLDEN DOOR!" November 2, 1883

Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)

[eleni121]

The Ellis Island immigrants were also responding to poverty and the opportunity to work in America. Many factory owners actually had agents in Europe who would advertise and promote immigrants to come here to work.

Things back then were not much different from what is going on today with the exception of immigrants who were suffering from certain diseases and were sent back and the fact that there were few if any other restrictions on immigration.

[FITZ]

How quick we forget that immigration is what made America who she is and always will be the source of her foundation tomorrow.

Only it wasn't immigration that did that ---- it was the vision of our Founding Fathers who provided America's foundation.

[FITZ]

There are difference between the immigrants of old who built the foundation of this country

Which of the Founding Fathers or those writing the Constitution were born Americans and which were immigrants? I don't think it was immigrants who wrote the Constitution. The only good thing immigrants can do is leave their old political ways behind and conform to the American Constitution.

[FITZ]

We let them become part of the solution and start paying into the dream...

If they're so big on the American dream --- what stops them from implementing it in their own country? Mexico is an immigrant country at least as much as the USA is. I guess a failed immigrant country which now must immigrate all over again.

[Axenolith]

Yea, It's a pain to take the time to point something out and have a no-response because they're really full of crap too. I wondered on the sleeper aspect, he'd been here a while, but the surest sign of a 'Rat or 'Rat sympathizer is when you take the time to post a reply and all you get from them is cricket sound...chirp...chirp...chirp... :)

[Hoverbug]

Heck, the way I look at it, when they don't reply, it's because you just cleaned their clock and they have absolutely no defense, or any comeback that can destroy or even come close to lessening your argument.

Their normal mode is to then just hit the other threads, continuing to spout their nonsense, and hope no one else has seen your argument.

This place is fast becoming "Free Republican", not Free Republic.

Hb

[vetvetdoug]

Maybe Ellis Island and the immigrant laws of the 1800's were a dream I had where immigrants were registered before entering the US and had to learn some rudiments of the US Constitution and history. I must have been mistaken.

[Little Ray]

You keep implying that folks like me are some sort of nativist goons who hate all immigrants. We're not. I don't even hate illegals. If we didn't have all these taxpayer supplied "freebies" illegal immigrants might not be a problem at all. But the combination of illegal aliens and a welfare state will bankrupt us.

Solutions?
Make it illegal to use the Matricula Consuela as an ID.
Hire enough BP agents to secure the freakin' border; it doesn't have to be airtight, just difficult.
Stop worryin' about the idiots that die in the desert: make the crossing both uncomfortable and dangerous - remove watering stations, and other installations designed to protect invading illegals.
Allow property owners to defend their property from invaders.
Bill Mexico for charges incurred or damage caused by Mexican illegals; seize Mexican assets if they don't pay.
Enforce the laws against employers who employ illegals.
Cut federal funding to states that don't cooperate with the INS in locating and deporting illegals. Increase penalties for repeat offenders.
Make English the official language.

Solutions we don't lack. Just the will.

[dhs12345]

I prefer to solve problems via the process. Anarchy should always be the last resort.

If a law exists, and it is repeatedly being broken, then look for ways to fix it by enforcing the law or by changing it.

If that fails, then try, try again. The alternative is not very pleasant, albeit sometimes necessary.

[dhs12345]

There are a lot of unknowns. There will be major changes. You are right: on the plus side, if illegals are legalized, they will be required to pay social security, payroll taxes, etc., i.e., pay into the system which could help.

In the end, somethings gotta give. Cost of labor to employers will certainly go up (additional taxes, fica, increased wages, etc.). This cost will be passed on to consumers. If consumers refuse to pay and buy elsewhere or not at all, then demand for products will drop and legal illegals will be out of a job.

It is fairly complicated. The question: what will be the net benefit?

[Hoverbug]

The net benifit will be to the employers who will now hire the NEW crop of illegal aliens instead of the "guest workers" whom they would have to pay more and worry about all that SS, FICA, etc.

Know what no one has explained to me? Right now the same folks who are saying that it's just not possible to round up millions of people and deport them, are saying this new law is a great idea because the guest workers will have to leave after 3 years.

Well, golly, if it's not possible to round up a million illegals, why would it be possible to round up a million guest workers who simply overstay their visas, thereby becoming an illegal alien again?

Hb

[dhs12345]

Very good point!

The whole plan requires compliance with the new law. What are the chances that those who have broken the immigration laws in the past will break immigration laws again? They get a free pass when they do.

Also, how many illegals will be so paranoid that they won't register for fear of being deported?

[familyofman]

No one I know of has any problem with LEGAL immigration - it's the ILLEGAL form that's objected to. If you can't tell the difference you're blind and/or stupid.

[Hoverbug]

What are the chances that those who have broken the immigration laws in the past will break immigration laws again?

Bout 100% I'd say.

Hb

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Thanks for your so thoughtful input....I'd like to point out to you in my original post that I did not type the words legal or illegal, so how you come to your conclussion of my intellegence or lack there of or my inability to see the difference is news to me. It is definitely a facet that you have chosen to bring into the picture. But, don't feel bad, your no different than the rest of the 86% of the contributors to my post who lash out at me instead of trying to offer either constructive criticism to my post or constructive debate to the over all problem of immigration. You have nothing to offer to solve, first the problem of 8 million plus or minus undocumented, illegal immigrants, and second what will be the new policy going forward. I guess your like all the rest...hate any change...refuse to pay the cost to clean up the problems that we the American people have allowed to continue since Reagan's immigration policy, and you most certainly reserve the right to b1^$h about it while offering no solutions and God forbid anyone ask you to give up or sacrifice a shreed of anyting in your life in order to help make anothers life a little more pleasant. Please......spare me! Oh, I forgot to ask...can you say MOOO?

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Well based on the senario that you have laid out, I would think that as soon as the people (legal or illegal) who don't want to be a part of the American system find that they can not get a job and the conditions are really that bad, then they pack up and cross the southern border going back to where they came. While to some that might sound good, to me I believe it would spell out an economic and job environment that would make the depression look like a sunday picknic. When consumers refuse to pay the current price for goods, it creates a contraction in the economy that there is too many products at to high a price....and soon a recession will follow. History points all this out in the cycles of economics. The goal of the game is not to be caught without a job or money and resources to survive when a recession hits. DON'T LIVE BEYOND YOUR MEANS. I know its a hard lesson, but if you don't learn it then the failing of SS in the future will impact you even harder.

Thanks for the reply....

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

I read your solutions and share favor with many of them....forgive me, but I don't remember implying that you or any folks are nativist goons. The overall energy from most freepers on this issue has been against with a large percentage of them being very angry and negative about discussing opposing views or solutions. I would like to see a solution that works to solve the issue by anyway other than the following: shoot them, arrest them and incarcerate them, deport them only to find they came back. Any solution that is successful will have to aggressively deal with the lack of border inforcement that has gone on for 20 plus years. It is a big bite of a problem to solve and will cost more I believe than most people want to pay...unless you plan on soaking the richest 1% for the bill.

Thanks for the reply!

[Hila]

LEGAL immigration! L E G A L.

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Nothing stopping them from implementing anything that they really want and are prepared to die for.....oh but there in lies the key. How many people in countries other than the US who have yet to taste the sweetness of freedom and prosperity are truely ready and willing to die for it. Not many....you find more who are willing to die for militant islamic dictatorship thugs than liberty and freedom.

Thanks for the reply!

[BackSlidenDemocrat]

Whom I'm sure you'll find were either immigrants themselves or 1st or 2nd generational offspring of immigrants who came here to seek relief from persicution, tyranny, and poverty of another nation. As far as my understanding, the only true natives to this country are the native american indians, unless you have something else that is pertinent to history to contribute at this time.

Thanks for the reply!