[glannon]

If nobody had raised a stink, that ad would probably be in the finals right now.

the ad is not in the finals because the moveon members that voted didn't vote for it to be in the finals. whatever we think of moveon members and the organization, the organization gave the members the chance to choose the ad, and the members rejected it. is there more to this dicussion? i can see how some might think its inappropriate for them to have had the choice -- i've said elsewhere it was risky. but in this case, the risk worked out: the ads were rejected.

[ArcLight]

Nonsense. Imagine what would have happened if the GOP held such a contest, and published one of the "losing" ads comparing Dean to, say, Stalin. Who would accept the excuse that they merely published the ad so that members could vote on it?

The GOP types would quite rightly be expected to exercise good judgment and reject certain extreme, hate-filled ads out of hand. The Hitler ads should never have seen the light of day. To publish them and then claim they had nothing to do with them is the height of moronic hypocrisy.

[Prodigal Son]

the ad is not in the finals because the moveon members that voted didn't vote for it to be in the finals.

You believe that? I got some prime property on the Isle of Lewis to sell you if you think that's true. You know why those ads got pulled? Because either Dean or Gore (both of whom have endorsed MoveOn and vice versa) made panicky phone calls to MoveOn and told them to yank those ads. Go over to du and check out their reactions to the ads. They think they were hunky dory. They're like "So what, Bush is a Nazi".

I guarantee you if they had left those ads in there the idiotic judges they have (Garofolo, Moore, Franken, Moby, Stipe, Vetter and co) would've picked that one. Soros- the billionaire patron of Moveon- thinks Bush is Hitler. Since he's signing the checks over there it's a safe bet the Hitler ad would've been picked.

That's the state of your party today guy. You've all gone insane and you don't have a shot in hell of getting in the White House.

[AndyTheBear]

the ad is not in the finals because the moveon members that voted didn't vote for it...

OK, now I see you responded to this point, but your assertion is different then the ones others are making. Can you give us a source?

[weegee]

Just doing some research and I see:

This account has been banned or suspended. (signup was 12-12-2003)

[dvwjr]

Bogus argument.

The MoveOn.org group asked for 30-second spot advertisements to be submitted. Just because they were submitted by members of the general public did not automatically cause them to be 'magically' placed as a streaming multimedia file on the MoveOn.org Internet server. The MoveOn.org organization had to CAUSE those submissions to be made publicly available for their "members" to vote on and decide. That means that they 'approved' of the content and format of the two 'Hitler/Bush' ads enough to place them on THEIR website for viewing/voting.

Imagine if the RNC hosted a contest for ads against the Democrats and one was submitted graphically depicting Democrats holding Blacks in servitude/chains on the 'liberal plantation'. If the RNC said that they were looking for ads to put on TV, but that these ads were in NO WAY endorsed or approved by the RNC but were merely available for Republican Party members to vote on, do you think that any 'mainstream' news organization would report that view with a straight face. Would the RNC explanation of the failure of their 'screening process' on such ads submissions stand up to the resulting media outrage?? I think not...

It's sort of like the Howard Dean's 'interesting theory' about Bush and his possible foreknowledge of 9/11 spouted on the NPR Diane Rheams show. Just a way to inject the subject/spin you desire with the cover of being able to deny any association or endorsement of said view. Imagine going on a cable-TV show on a political analysis segment (such as Hardball, Hannity&Colmes, etc) and let slip the statement that you found intriging the story that Howard Deans butt-f*cks goats in his spare time as a depraved devil-worshipper... When confronted by other panelists after they recover from their on-air fainting spell you innocently claim that, of course you in NO way endorse or even believe such a thing about Howard Dean, (who probably likes goats but not in that way) but simply mentioned it as an 'intriguing' theory that is 'out there' among the public discourse.

Just harmless speculation, right???


dvwjr