Welcome to Civility 101

townhall.com ^ | 1-5-2004 | Mike S. Adams

[Poser]

I gather you aren't allowed to eject students from class. In that case try this. Professor William H. Scott, a great teacher, uses this technique. He may be the first, but I doubt it.

Scott takes the 5 or 6 students who care into another room and conducts a private class for them. If the room is big enough, he simply picks a small section of the room and moves the real students there.

Scott breaks his classes into two groups: "Degree seekers" and "Students."

He teaches the Students and ignores the Degree seekers. The tests, of course, are the same for each group. He gives lots of D- grades. The Degree Seekers pass the course but can't graduate because their GPA is too low. Degree Seekers who decide to become Students are always welcome.

[Poser]

"I've had professors that pull that little trick. When there's ten minutes between classes and you have to get from one side of the university to the other, it's a lot of fun. And the students are blamed for being late! "

I never hold my classes late. We have the 10 minute break between classes as well. I design my classes to run 5 to 10 minutes shorter than the full time. Class disruptions simply move us closer to the deadline. If we don't make it to the end of the topic, and it's not my fault, I tell them they will have to read the book for the rest. If it is my fault, I carefully finish the topic in the next class.

Giving a quiz at the beginning and the end of each class is a useful technique when students wander in and out. Late arrivals and wandering are to problems that I have not solved. Students who do it receive substantially lower grades, but most don't seem to care.

Our 1st semester grades hit home on January 2nd. I gave out 125 grades last semester. They were online by December 19th, but 6 students still contacted me by email wondering why they got a rotten grade. Every grade they earn is posted online in a special web page throughout the semester. The lazy ones don't even check.

I find that about 25% of the students don't care at all and will flunk out in the first year. Another 25% don't care enough and they won't ever graduate. Of the remaining 50%, about a fifth are good students who care. The others will graduate but I wouldn't hire them to work for me.

My department starts each year with about 90 freshmen. We graduate about 40. Twenty of them excel. The other 20 are nice people who will float around in limbo until they get some motivation for something. I figure it's my job to motivate them all. I'm happy when I graduate twice as many good students as I got when they were freshmen.

[JenB]

Well, if you don't run late, then of course it's your class and do what you like, and I'm sorry if my comment was a little acid. It's so frustrating, the little things that throw my carefully-balanced schedule off. This semester, I have only two classes, so I'll be able to work overtime and possibly still have time to read a book now and then. But not if my professors keep me late after class...

On the whole, professors are little tyrants. They go on about liberal ideas (in math class) or stand there and fail to explain the same thing over and over. Most of them regurgitate the book, so the two of us who have read the week's assignment have to sit there and not fall asleep.

I've had a few good professors. Mostly, they were part time guys who had real jobs and taught for spare cash. They seem to be a bit more "clued-in". Sounds like your students are fortunate enough to have a professor who cares more about learning than propoganda and touchy-feely stuff. Too bad more of them don't appreciate it.

Any chance things get better at the graduate studies level?

[Atlas Sneezed]

You work for ME, Professor, if I'm paying the tuition. Just teach me the course material, grade me on the work I do and what I demonstrate that I know on the exams, and shut up about my tardiness or skipped classes or whatever.

---

Just like neighborhoods with restrictions, (some) people value an education more highly when there are restrictions placed on what your fellow students may do to impair the atmosphere. A strict prof who actually has rules is a benefit to the educational process. Just like tough and arbitrary rules at boot camp are considered beneficial to their victims.

[Poser]

"Any chance things get better at the graduate studies level?"

Grad school is a different world. As a teacher, you can assume the students will read the assigned material and that they have a background in the basic subject area. Every one of them has also received a degree with a reasonable GPA. Most are interested in the subject area as well.

Grad school is about reading or researching a topic and forming an independent opinion. Classes are for discussing and analyzing the various opinions of the students. Some subject matters, like statistics or tax accounting, don't involve opinion, but all can be used for analysis and decision-making.

My discussions with older faculty indicate that upper-class undergraduate courses used to be like today's grad school classes. Times are indeed changing.

And... Yes. Many part-time faculty suck. The career full-time faculty are a little better, but they aren't being replaced when they retire. Half of my department's courses are now taught by part-time faculty (the best we can find). Grad students are usually the worst teachers. They are always inexperienced and often have no practical experience with the subject.

[RightWhale]

You work for ME, Professor, if I'm paying the tuition.

Actually, this is incorrect. The Prof should give you the boot and you can pick up your tuition on the way out.

[JenB]

Heh, that line abut grad students.... I've never had one teach a course I'm in (mostly because my school doesn't have a grad program in computer science) but I'm going to try to get a TA position in (hopefully) grad school next year.

At least I have experience in my field. Your description of grad school is what I've hoped for...

[Jokelahoma]

and shut up about my tardiness or skipped classes or whatever

Well the article doesn't mention missed classes so much as tardiness. I agree that it's your choice if you miss the class. You paid for the product, how you use it is your business. If you can miss a number of classes and still pass, either A) the class wasn't put together well by the instructor, or B) you didn't need the class in the first place. Even then, the self-discipline to show up is part of a learning experience. But I digress.

Tardiness is a whole different issue. If the classroom is set up in such a way that you can enter the room so as to disturb no one -- including the professor -- once class has begun, then perhaps you'd have a point. However, I've never seen one set up that way. When you come in late, you are a distraction to the class and the instructor, and you are then interfering with other people's tuition. I've actually had a student come to me on break and thank me for ejecting another student who was up and down a few times during class. I ejected that student because they both showed up late, AND missed a large percentage of the class talking on their phone out in the hall, but the participant who came to me thanked me because that person and their moving about so much was a major distraction. They were missing out on what they wanted to get out of the class because Sparky couldn't stay put. We just don't think about those things when we look at it from a standpoint of "hey, I can show up late if I want. It's just a little tardiness." It's the old "your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose" thing. In this case, your right to arrive late stops the second it disrupts the class or the presentation of the instructor in any way.

As for deducting points for even having a cell phone on you, well, why not? It's the instructor's classroom. They set the rules, within limits of discrimination laws, common decency, etc. Telling someone they cannot bring a convenience item into a classroom is hardly discriminatory, and if that convenience item can only lead to another source of distraction in the classroom, then more power to the professors. If you need it for emergency contacts (e.g. the single parent with kids scenario) discuss that with the professor at your earliest opportunity.

[Jokelahoma]

I agree with Poser on this one. Grad Students make horrible teachers, for the most part. Most don't know the subject well enough, and those who do know the subject have all the teaching skills of Ben Stein's character in "Ferris Bueller". The gap between knowing something and being able to impart that knowledge to others in an effective and efficient manner is a hell of a lot larger than some people think. Sadly, the worst offenders seem to be professors who are anxious to not have to teach a beginner level course, and so pass it off on a GA who just isn't capable of teaching, no matter what their academic ability.

Whew... sorry about the mini-rant. I'm sure you'll do fine, Jen. I loved grad school simply because they left me alone. Instead of "we want to to go from point A to point F, and you must pass through B, C, D, and E in order, and show your work or it doesn't count!", you get "Hey, here's point F... that's where you'll want to be at the end of the semester. Come find me if you have any questions or get lost along the way." The freedom to make your own educational choices is in stark contrast to high school and even most undergrad work. You'll love it. Just don't show up late, and mute the cell phone. :-)

[JenB]

Thanks! That's a very encouraging reply. I probably also have the lack of teaching skills you mentioned, but as I'll probably end up teaching Computer Literacy 101, which nobody needs to take but everyone has to take anyway, I should be fine.

Grad school should be great. Provided, of course, that I get in! I'm pretty good at independent work - I was homeschooled and just always sort of worked that way. And not ever having to take a useless required class that has nothing to do with my major will be lovely...

Actually I'll bet a lot of the problem this guy is pointing out comes from our insistence on making engineering students take, say, art classes, and art students take Philosophy. In theory, it works to make nice rounded individuals. In practice you take ten classes, learn very little, and grumble.

[TaxRelief]

I went to college in NYC. I parked in a street spot somewhere in the vicinity of my school, then removed my bicycle from the back of my car and rode the rest of the way to school, rain or shine, sleet or "hazy, hot and humid".

It worked and it got me right to my building faster than parking on campus and walking.