Maine: It's nearly the last gasp for smoking bar patrons

MaineToday.com ^ | December 29, 2003 | ELBERT AULL

[Gabz]

You may be surprised but in a true market system, the winners use everything at their disposal to win. Use of the gov't, especially in a heavy regulated industry is a prerequisite to winning

Believe me, it does not come as a surprise. While it may be fact, might does not make right, it just makes it possible. I had been a reporter and for the past 18 years have been both a paid and unpaid advocate for various groups - I've seen it all.

The law should be either all or none.

The law shouldn't be involved at all - allow each business to make the decision based upon the input of their employees. And in the case of bars or restaurants also their customers.

The only way to resolve the inconsistancy politically is for all smoking in work places to be banned.

I disagree. The only way to resolve it is for politicians to stay out of it and let the businesses resolve it in house. All businesses.

You say I have a good point in my remarks about unfair application when it comes to the liquor license holder but you don't address it. I can't tell you how many bar and restaurant owners have brought up the subject with officials and legislators only to be met with "you know the rules of your ABC license, obey the law or lose it" or words to that effect. And those are just the ones I know personaly, there are that many more that I don't know who have been met with the same response.

Do you have any suggestions of what more these people can do?

[VRWC_minion]

Do you have any suggestions of what more these people can do?

Is this the only thing unfair about a liquor license ? If not then I'll bet their isn't much they can do. For example, are there other laws that result in loss of license for bars and only fines for other busineses.

As I write and think about it, there is a precedent for other licenses. I hold a state license as a CPA amoung other licenses, in my business. If I violate certain laws I can lose my license to practice as a CPA as well as receive a fine. If I lose my license there are some things I can no longer do. I can still do acounting but I cannot issue opinions on financial statements and I cannot represent clients in the IRS.

So, now that I think of it, its logical and consistent that a licensee can lose his license prviledges if he breaks certain laws.

In some states, parents who are behind in their child support can lose their licenses for an act that even has no relationship to their business conduct.

The license is giving someone a special priviledge and special priviledges are not the same as rights.

[Mears]

Re post #109-I wish there were a few laws restricting self righteousness.

[Gabz]

For example, are there other laws that result in loss of license for bars and only fines for other busineses.

Not that I can think of off the top of my head.

Using your CPA analogy: A close friend of mine is a CPA and she and her partners own the buidling housing their office. She's a smoker and the smoking ban covers her business as well if the smoke police catch her smoking in her office she will only be subjected to the fine, increasingly higher for each subsequent violation but no sanction against her CPA license.

However if her cousin, who owns a bar is caught smoking in the back office of her building, after a third offense will be subjected to hearing before the ABC with the possibility of losing that license.

Same offense, vastly different sanctions.

I totally understand what you are saying about licenses being priveleges, but unlike other laws, such as the one regarding your CPA license they are license specific.

[Bogey]

Cars don't kill people, drunk drivers do...

---

Most deaths in cars are by sober drivers.
85% of all teenage deaths are car accidents.
75% of all smokers live well into their 70's.
Got to ban cars.
To save the children.

[VRWC_minion]

You are mixing the analogies. I wouldn't lose my license if I smoked in my office and the bar owner wouldn't lose his bar license if he signed a fraudelent financial statement that he reviewed for someone else. (Except if used for the license).

[VRWC_minion]

Your right, more people die from other causes than drunks. You drive home with the drunk tonight, I'll walk.

[VRWC_minion]

Re post #109-I wish there were a few laws restricting self righteousness.

I agree, those smokers that think they are holier than thou and demand to smoke wherever no matter who they offend have got to go.

[Gabz]

I do not know all the ins and outs of the maine and California smoke bans, but in NY and DE the smoking bans apply to EVERY place of business (workplace), not just the bars and restaurants - yet liquor licenses are the only ones placed in jeopardy by violations of the ban.

You wouldn't lose your CPA license for smoking in your office, but the bar owner can lose his bar license for smoking in his office. Same offense different punishment is the point I was trying to make.


I realize my post came across rather disjointed, I had started responding to you this morning and was interupted by company that was supposed to call ahead to let me know when they were coming. I thought I had finished it and just forgot to post it so hit the button without re-reading, my apologies.

[Gabz]

those smokers that think they are holier than thou and demand to smoke wherever no matter who they offend have got to go.

I've never met one of them, but would be inclined to agree with that, as I would also agree that other holier than thou types demanding they can do what they want no matter who they offend have got to go.

[SheLion]

Re post #109-I wish there were a few laws restricting self righteousness.

~sigh

Don't I just know it!

Happy New Year, Mears!!

[Max McGarrity]

The consequence of these laws will be to save lives from the drunk driver who stays home. Antis seem unable to follow a thought to its logical conclusion, don't they? As here, you have people (drunks) driving FARTHER in order to find a place they can comfortably drink and smoke. And then driving home. Good luck on the highways.

[Max McGarrity]

well said.

[Gabz]

Happy New Year, Max.

Good to see you, you've been missed.

[Max McGarrity]

You probably mean to be funny, minnie--but your bigotry shines through far too clearly. It must suck to be you.

[Max McGarrity]

Happy New Year, Gabz, and friends. I've set myself a few tasks to complete with the young'uns so won't be too vocal, but I'll be around.

Max

[Axenolith]

Does anyone care????

Probably not, so make sure to remind them of it when they come around shrieking about some tax or restriction on something they like (snack food comes to mind)...

[Axenolith]

Since when was your opinion of the intoxicant level of any given person VS six beers and the time they are consumed germane to the drinking habits of the general public?

[sawyer]

Who knows what is going on. In Ca in '98 when I was last there it was the same. No smoking in bars.I do not like to even go to large cities any more or fly. I recall when this was a free country. This silly endless do not do this and wars are wearing me out.I spent 20 years in the middle of the service life style and it was not as bad as this. Frankly the terrorist need not do another thing. They have won.It is really hard to believe that a country of almost 300 million people would let the death of 2000 people by 12 people brings us to our knees. So be it.

[VRWC_minion]

As here, you have people (drunks) driving FARTHER in order to find a place they can comfortably drink and smoke.

This guy says he is staying home. The midpoint of Maine is about 4 hours from a border state. Are they really going to drive 4 hours one way just to smoke while drinking ?