The Nanny State Strikes Again

Fox News ^ | 12/26/03 | William A. Niskanen

[jimkress]

Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, who must have little else to do, has recently urged state governments to pass "primary" seat-belt laws, which allow police to stop and cite motorists solely for failing to wear a seat belt.

And the Bush administration has proposed a $400 million incentive to reward state governments that pass such laws.

[inquest]

You're perfectly welcome to interject at any time. It's just that when you do so without tracking the conversation, you may find yourself making points that aren't relevant to the conversation, most likely because you have a mistaken impression of what my actual position is.

[Congressman Billybob]

Sheech. ALL taxes are taken by force. I forget who said it, but "taxes" aren't "contributions." The Girl Scouts get "contributions" when they sell cookies, because all transactions are VOLUNTARY. Taxes are NOT voluntary.

However, in every system of government, good, bad or ugly, taxes are LEGAL. And absent taxes, any government would quickly collapse, as did the first American government under the Articles of Confederation, for that precise reason.

Give it a rest.

John / Billybob

[inquest]

Just to let you know, the reason I didn't respond to you earlier was that you had asked me a question that was essentially the same as one that Luis had asked beforehand, and my answer was already out there. It's like I said to MEG33: It would really be helpful if you'd do a little tracking of the conversation before jumping in. It would avoid a lot of repetitions and unnecessary explanations as to our views.

[nunya bidness]

God, someone at last responded to me on this thread! I know I don't have that Latin charisma, and am a soporific WASP type, but still, one after a time gets that the feeling that you are a log falling in the forest that no one sees or hears, which lends itself to a certain sense of social anomie at a minimum, and at worst a sense that the Cartesian postulate that because I think, I exist, is an errant notion.

Please respond with billing information. Otherwise your references will be catalogued for future response. And it will be by the word: soporific=$10, anomie=$20 (social was redundent), Cartesian=$32 (Descartes isn't in current curriculum), postulate= freebie!

[inquest]

Ugh. OK. Posts 321 and 323 are for you, too.

(It's getting late. Time for me to go to bed).

[Torie]

Well then, since I can't really find the response, but assume you are an economic conservative and self reliant type, it's a relief that you agree that you should be in a higher premium insurance pool, and will agree that you should have such insurance in order to drive without a seat belt. No parasitic type are you. I salute you.

[MEG33]

I consider taken by force to include a gun in your ear,a knife at your throat...

Taken by force can also mean taken against one's will which is certainly the case for most taxpayers!It is something we force ourselves to do out of force of habit every April 15th.

I am forced to finally face the music and force myself to get the paper work done.I am forced to pay a penalty if I have neglected to pay enough in.I hope my taxes are used as a force for good,though I know some will go to feed the porkie pigs.

[inquest]

My response, at #242, was that each state should be allowed to decide such matters for themselves. If you follow the replies from there, you'll see how things convolute from there, all the way to this very post.

[Torie]

10+20+32=62. I won't even take your call for that. All that rates you is a nice little chat with my often irritable secretary.

[Torie]

Well then I take it you don't think the states should have a little help from their "friend," to help stamp out parasitic types, who want to engage in risky behavior that others will have to pay for when their Faustian bargain doesn't pan out. What do you think the law should be in your state?

[MEG33]

Do you feel you have been in the presence of greatness,tonight...;)

[inquest]

Oh, what the hell, I'll just lay it on the line. I realize conversations can take many twists and turns, and that it can be difficult to keep up with them, especially at this time of night.

Anyway, my position is not that taxes are "evil" purely on account of the fact that they take money by force. I was disputing Luis's assumption that simply offering money to states is not an intrusion by the federal government into the affairs of states. It seems like such a "soft" approach - they're just offering money, right? But it's not a soft approach. The money that they're offering was taken from them by force. Hence, "offering" to give it back to them with strings attached is no different from directly regulating their behavior.

Now you can argue whether such regulation is a good thing or a bad thing, but that's getting ahead of ourselves. He was trying to say that this didn't even amount to an imposition on the states at all. I was just trying to get him to speak in honest language.

[Torie]

Well I have the feeling of being in the presence. Of what, well, some other time.

[MEG33]

LOL!

[inquest]

Well then I take it you don't think the states should have a little help from their "friend,"

Sure they can get some help. If the feds want to help them out, they can cut taxes at any time. Simple as that.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..it costs a fortune to treat head trauma victims.They DON'T throw them out and we pay for them if they can't pay...

That's the fault of your wacky system, which I've been hearing all about from a visiting Seppo mate this Christmas. Your plan to micro manage any and all risk is Hillarian, Meg. If people have no insurance, garnishee their wages or welfare payments in the same way as child support. The message will soon get through.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...there will always be the UNAPPEASEABLES, who scream " statist ", " police state "...

...and there will be many more people who, having voted fopr someone who made much of his Christian conservative values during the election, expect him to then use them to set policy direction once he's in the big seat. As opposed to signing off on statist policy like this, or police state policy like the PATRIOT Act.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..there isn't a viable politician,in any major party, whom they think is " good enough ". They'd much rather be miserable, than partly satisified...

No. What they want, and what they voted Bush in for, is an alternative to the 'Government Knows Best' mantra of the Clintons/Gore troika. Not only has that not been rolled back, it's picking up steam.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...politics is the art of the possible, and the "true believers" don't seem to have a clue as to how this game is played...

Without the 'true believers' we'd have President Gore in the White House. Let's just pray Bush can pick up enough soccer moms and tort lawyers to replace them, because I don't think they'll be fooled again.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..the author is a moron...

The author is chairman of the Cato Institute and was a senior economic adviser to President Reagan, Luis. Don't want to damage your self-esteem, but your comment's absurd.