[Pan_Yans Wife]

Thank you for posting this, very timely.

[freedom44]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[StatesEnemy]

Does anyone find it interesting how fluid religiosity was during the time of Jesus (and especially for 100's of years after his death)?

What if God the Father is the center of all things - singularity as the physicists would describe it - wouldn't there be countless paths, like spokes running towards the hub, each coming from their own frame of reference, converging upon 'the truth'?

[the_Watchman]

Furthermore, the old Testament of the Bible, written hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, tells the story of the Jews living in the south of Israel, Judea, being overcome by the Babylonians. The Babylonians were, in turn, overcome by the Persians while the Jews were in captivity.

The book of Daniel recounts how Daniel was a "wise man" in both the court of the Babylonians and subsequently, the Persians.

Also, Esther, a Jewess, served as a queen of Persia.

Therefore, the Persians would have had access to Jewish writings and teachings which called for a Messiah to arise in Israel. The wise men of Persia of the time at Jesus could well have been aware of the Jewish teachings about a coming Messiah.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Interesting post, thanks.

[LadyDoc]

bump

merry christmas.

[LS]

Except the Bible says nothing about "three" wise men---and some Biblical scholars think there could have been as many as 50. All we know for sure is that there was more than one.

[RaceBannon]

(Mat 2:1 KJV) Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

(Mat 2:2 KJV) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

(Mat 2:3 KJV) When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

(Mat 2:4 KJV) And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

(Mat 2:5 KJV) And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

(Mat 2:6 KJV) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

(Mat 2:7 KJV) Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

(Mat 2:8 KJV) And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

(Mat 2:9 KJV) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

(Mat 2:10 KJV) When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

(Mat 2:11 KJV) And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

(Mat 2:12 KJV) And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

(Mat 2:13 KJV) And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

(Mat 2:14 KJV) When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

(Mat 2:15 KJV) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

(Mat 2:16 KJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

(Mat 2:17 KJV) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,

(Mat 2:18 KJV) In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.



There is no mention in the Bible that I know of of the names of the Wise Men, only that they came from the East, and the Star that they followed actually STOPPED and STOOD OVER where Jesus lay.

[RightWhale]

The Magi are in many regional traditions. Their names vary, their rank or status varies, and their number varies. Their place of origin varies. Whether they returned to their homeland(s) or will still return one day varies.

[tang-soo]

I know some who believe the Magi were descended from the men who worked with Daniel the prophet. Isaiah 44 and 45 recounts the prophecy of how Cyrus (my annointed who did not know Me) would defeat the Babylonians. According to Josephus, Daniel showed this prophecy to Cyrus (which was written more than 200 years earlier). He was so overwhelmed that he issued a decree aloowing the Jews to return to rebuild their temple along with supplies and money to do so.

Years later Nehemiah received a similar decree authorizing the reconstruction of the wall of Jerusalem. This was the beginning of the prophecy of Daniels 70 weeks (of years) stated in Daniel 9 24-27. 483 years later (69 * 70) was April 6, 32 AD a day many to believed to be the Day of The Triumphal Entry AKA Palm Sunday. The Persian prophets working with Daniel began counting the days and anticipated the approximate date of the birth of the Messiah - hence the travel to Israel in search of the new King.

By the way, you may wonder what happened to the last "seven" - the prophecy indicates this is a seperate period of time and is referred to as the time of "Jacob's trouble" aka the Tribulation period.

So yes, I think it is quite possible the Wise men were of Persian descent.

[maestro]

Merry Christmas.....ping!

[McGavin999]

How very interesting. Thank you for posting this freedom.

[GOPJ]

Thanks for posting this & Merry Christmas.

[maro]

Very interesting. One quibble--the worship of fire (or Agni) is a very ancient Indo-European belief that certainly predates Jesus by millenia.

[Cronos]

ping to odds and n-t-i

[cradle of freedom]

The prophet Daniel was living in Babylon during the Hebrew captivity. Daniel was an interpreter of dreams and was highly respected by the king. As you know, the Babylonian Empire was later absorbed by the Medo-Persian Empire, so the Persians may have learned about Daniel and some of the Jewish prophecies. It is not far fetched that the learned men of the Persian Empire would have kept that knowledge and looked for the signs of the Hebrew Messiah.