The end of 'Christianity lite' is near

Edmonton Sun ^ | December 21, 2003 | TED BYFIELD

[Zipporah]

< nodding >

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Thank you. A good intelligent answer.
I wish others would examine the questions a little closer.
I have learned something from you.

[foghornleghorn]

Indeed, love is the first commandment, but doctrine is important, primarily in demonstrating to our rational selves that we believe in something coherent. Denying various parts of doctrine quickly destroys this coherence, and undermines our reason for our beliefs. The results can be clearly seen today.

[Havoc]

Not a problem. Here's some foundation material for ya:

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

[2] Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother;

[3] Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

[4] Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

--
This is really good stuff if you read on. Draws a marked difference in approach between the way some do things now and the way Christ instructed the Apostles to work. 'Provide nothing for yourselves - go and I shall provide for you' was God's instruction. Today, men wail on and on about how we must provide for them before they will go. One wonders where the power of God went. I digress lol Here's another one of use:

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

[25] Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

[26] But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

[27] And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

[28] Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

..
This one is foreshadowing of the way Christ approached Gentiles later as well. He sent the twelve then called upon Paul and sent him to the Gentiles. This one speaks of Paul to Ananias at Paul's commissioning:

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

And this is how Paul then self identifies his Primary ministry:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

[2] If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

[3] How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

[4] Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

[5] Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

[6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[7] Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

[8] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

[9] And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Here we see Paul's grounding in his direction - Preaching first to Israelites, then to the Gentiles when the israelites would not listen. This is prior to his self identification above..

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

[47] For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

[16] That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Paul was preaching to the Gentiles through direction from God and with all athority before the other apostles even considered it. God does work through people without the approval or neccessity of approval from any man. The other apostles had no input in Paul's decision, in God's direction nor did they have to "allow it" it wasn't their place. Nor was it their ministry. And when it came time to make a judgement on the matter, they looked to what God would have them do and to the examples of what God had wraught through Paul and Barnabas. Many lessons in this - many. Not the least of which is that Paul opened the doors to the Gentiles - not Peter. And by God's direction. Who then is holding keys to the kingdom one wonders. Paul didn't even know Peter nor did he require anything of him, from him or about him. You'll note that Peter got filled in in Acts 10 - a chapter later than Paul.

It is appropriate that Paul "the apostle" to the Gentiles should be the one to rightly reprimand Peter for messing up things in Galatians.

As Peter's ministry goes, I've shown you he was called to preach to the house of Israel. Specifically, to the lost sheep. If you look back to the Old testament, it shows that the 10 lost tribes were scattered to the East of Israel after Assyria conquered the northern kingdom. They moved first into Assyria. Part of them stayed on and the majority were deported by the Assyrians into the old Median empire and over into the old Babylonian Empire.

Archeology has confirmed this and shows in recent times that they moved from there into Burma, India, accross into China and Japan. Some moved up into what is now modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbeckistan - ruling that area for hundreds of years and leaving. These things are a stumbling stone to the philosophies of some. But Christianity has zero to tremble at from actual history.

Hope that helps a little better. I didn't have time before to give a full rundown.

[mitch5501]

"It's a real downer to listen to some of these guys sometimes. Not just because they speak that which God never spoke and claim it his; but, because they are so blind they may never come to the truth."

And they are the teachers! no wonder folks can sit in pews for 20+ years and basically learn nothing.

Honestly...I reckon I had more of a grasp of what christianity was about when I was an atheist compared to too many church-goers.

I hear your respect for God's word and know that although there probably are things we would disagree on,we definentaly speak the same language.The fragrance of life is good.

On the subject of this thread,I once read (sorry can't remember where)that many were doing what Peter once did...sitting warming himself by the 'fire' but when the pressure is on denying their Lord.

I know I myself still can and do...however..."I am persuaded..." thank God!

"the captian of our salvation shall lead many sons to glory"

see you there 8-)

[P-Marlowe]

So let me guess. "Christianity lite" is the religion that is practiced by everyone does not pray as much as you do, does not go to church as much as you do, does not dress up for Church as much as you do, listens to religious music that is newer than you listen to, reads a bible translation that is newer than yours, laughs more than you, enjoys life more than you, does not give as much to the poor or to the church as you do, .....

Did I miss anything?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

So let me guess. "Christianity lite" is the religion that is practiced by everyone does not pray as much as you do, does not go to church as much as you do, does not dress up for Church as much as you do, listens to religious music that is newer than you listen to, reads a bible translation that is newer than yours, laughs more than you, enjoys life more than you, does not give as much to the poor or to the church as you do, .....


Have you ever read an old Sci-fi book called THE CIRCUS OF DR LO? Not the movie, the book.

At the end of the circus is a depiction of the destruction of the city of Woulderkan.
The high priest approaches their brazen idol and with a pious prayer prays that the god will forgive their sins which are many, overlook their faults, cause the people to learn humility, ect.
Suddenly the town fathers and "deacons" stop the prayer and tell the high priest to emphasize the good things they have done, minimize their sins. Basicly, they want a "Christianity Lite" type prayer. So the priest prays this prayer
"Look you hunk of bronze! Give us what we desire or we will melt you down into sommething useful. We are the best you have so you better do what WE say"!
The god is so incensed that he destroys the entire town and people there.

Every time I hear a "milk sop" type sermon I think of this tale and how far we hae come from the "meat" of the scriptures to preaching pablum to the masses.
It would not have something to do with the IRS code 501-3c(I think that is the one) would it?

[#3Fan]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything of the sort. Jesus is my Savior, and He has no "co-mediatrix." I wasn't stating any "true" doctrines; I was stating the historical meaning behind "immaculate conception." You and I have no disagreement, friend.

Ok.

[The Grammarian]

So let me guess. "Christianity lite" is the religion that is practiced by everyone does not pray as much as you do, does not go to church as much as you do, does not dress up for Church as much as you do, listens to religious music that is newer than you listen to, reads a bible translation that is newer than yours, laughs more than you, enjoys life more than you, does not give as much to the poor or to the church as you do, .....

That's my definition of "Christianity lite." ;P