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To: billbears
"In 1855, he (Jackson) defied a city ordinance in his hometown of Lexington, Virginia, by starting a Sunday school for local blacks. This class continued after Jackson’s death and "birthed" no less than three black churches.

Alas, billbears, the truth is often quite different from the facts. Jackson did not start the school. The school, sponsored by the Presbyterian Church in Lexington, existed before Jackson arrived and continued after he went to war. Jackson did not teach slaves to read. He did require the slaves that he owned to attend. As to 'birthing three black churches', I suppose that the Black Codes following the war had as much to do with that as did Jackson. Nice myth though.

"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race."---Robert E. Lee

Please continue the quote, billbears. "The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day." In other words, leave things as they are and let God sort it out.

Better to name them after men like Sherman, Grant, and the other guy. Lord knows their love for people of other races is well documented.

Better documented than either of the gentlemen you mentioned.

25 posted on 12/21/2003 4:01:19 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
As to 'birthing three black churches', I suppose that the Black Codes following the war had as much to do with that as did Jackson. Nice myth though.

Like the 'myth' of the Black Codes before the war in the north? For some reason I can't seem to find any quotes from the three saints of the north opposing these black codes....

Please continue the quote, billbears.

I saw nothing contradicted in the second part of the quote from the first.

The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things.

Much better a wish for the black race than ol 'root, pig, or perish' eh?

While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day

Not at all out of line from the teachings of a fundamentalist or Christian church. God allows the sun to shine on the evil as well as the godly. And His will always will trump the will of men. As it did peacefully throughout the Western Hemisphere in the decades prior. Of course there will always be those men that rely on their own horses and chariots so to speak. And those ways lead to 600,000+ dead.

Better documented than either of the gentlemen you mentioned.

Oh do, tell

Sherman himself certainly did not believe that "each man is as good as another." For example, in 1862 Sherman was bothered that "the country" was "swarming with dishonest Jews" (see Michael Fellman, Citizen Sherman, p. 153). He got his close friend, General Grant, to expel all Jews from his army. As Fellman writes, "On December 17, 1862, Grant . . . , like a medieval monarch . . . expelled ‘The Jews, as a class,’ from his department." Sherman biographer Fellman further writes that to Sherman, the Jews were "like n*ggers" and "like greasers (Mexicans) or Indians" in that they were "classes or races permanently inferior to his own."

'Liberating' the Indians

General Ulysses Grant's slaves had to await the Thirteenth Amendment for freedom. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, General Grant said, "Good help is so hard to come by these days."--Black Confederate Soldiers, Walter Williams

"I will say, then, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way, the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters of the free negroes, or jurors, or qualifying them to hold office, or having them to marry white people. I will say in addition, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which, I suppose, will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality, and inasmuch as they cannot so live, that while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, that I as much as any other man am in favor of the superior position being assigned to the white man."--Speeches and Writings 1832-1858

Interesting thing about that. 'while they do remain together'. Wonder what ol' abe was thinking. Perhaps could it be in reference to his colonization plan?

Lincoln is thought of as the Great Emancipator, but he thought of the African race as one that was inferior and unsuitable to live in a while society. Because he did not successfully carry out his plan of black colonization, it is rather easy to skip that section of his history. However, even only days prior to his assassination, he asked General Benjamin F. Butler to study the possibility of shipping the blacks to another location. Even after the failure of earlier attempts, Lincoln still desired the separation of the white and black races. During a speech at Cincinnati in September of 1859, Lincoln stated that "there is room enough for us all to be free," but he wished the blacks to live freely on another land mass.—[From Earnest Sevier Cox, Lincoln's Negro]

Nice guy. Wonder if Julian Bond wants to raise another monument to him?

31 posted on 12/21/2003 10:10:11 AM PST by billbears
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To: Non-Sequitur
"The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially....."

It was true then, and it's true now. Or do you not count malaria, hemorrhagic fevers, social decay, political violence, and the presence of active slave-catchers?

In other words, leave things as they are and let God sort it out.

Your impatient tendentiousness is showing. Bobby Lee was right, and you can't stand it, so you have to "summarize" his better English with a dismissive remark. Fah.

41 posted on 01/04/2004 8:18:24 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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