Town Says 'No' to Nativity Scene, 'Yes' to Menorah

Fox

[missyme]

PALM BEACH, Fla. — A federal judge has given the town of Palm Beach (search), Fla., until 5 p.m. Thursday to come up with a good reason why Christ in a manger should not be displayed next to a menorah on public property.

Town officials are saying "no" to putting up a Nativity scene next to a Jewish menorah (search) in a popular park on public property.

A few years ago, a rabbi in Palm Beach fought the same town leadership to put a menorah on public property. But after lawyers got involved, the town relented.

This year, two women wanted a Christ in a manger display next to the menorah but the town refused, saying the Nativity scene could only be placed in a lesser-trafficked park.

The women filed a lawsuit claiming discrimination and arguing that the Supreme Court (search) allows a balance of the two. For the past two years, for example, menorahs have been placed next to the more politically correct "secular holiday trees."

One of the plaintiffs told Fox News she asked to speak before the town council to make her case but was refused.

"They've discriminated against us," said Maureen Donnell. "They allow the menorahs but they have absolutely no interest in these Nativity scenes."

What Donnell and her co-plaintiff want is for the the menorah and the Nativity scene to be displayed next to each other.

But Palm Beach town attorney John Randolph said case law shows that when a menorah is placed next to a secular symbol -- such as a "secular holiday tree" -- it isn't considered a religious symbol.

[Landru]

"I believe that Jews in America , at least some Jews, have little reguard for Christians, and do not stand up for Christians, even as most Christians bend over backwards to include Jews in everything..."

You didn't know the Jews I knew, then.

Years ago during Christmas these people would step up & volunteer to work both xmas eve & day so we could celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

I'd say such an act was pretty damned generous as well as sensitive.

...c/wouldn't you agree?

[veronica]

I know many Jews that embrace Christ as there saviour and they are astrosized by some Jewish communities.

You cannot be a "Jew for Jesus." That would make you a Christian. That's an interesting malaprop in your sentence. :)

[Guvmint_Cheese]

I'm not quite sure which Jewish community you're speaking of, but the older folks in SE Florida tend to be from more traditional Jewish communities and know what a menorah is and what it stands for.

This is all more the reason why they should stand up because they also know more about religious intolerance. If they're behind this whole thing, then that is definitely the epitome of Chutzpah!

As for filling out ballots - My grandfather filled out his ballot properly! Unfortunately, he picked the wrong guy. Can't teach an old Dem new tricks :-P

[veronica]

Years ago during Christmas these people would step up & volunteer to work both xmas eve & day so we could celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

Every year the papers carry unheralded stories about Jews doing this sort of thing. Unfortunately, the Menorah story from Palm Beach has been reported on widely, while the many acts of kindness and generosity by Jews toward Christians at Christmas are buried in the back sections. I'll just have to post some articles. :)

[Landru]

"Unfortunately, the Menorah story from Palm Beach has been reported on widely, while the many acts of kindness and generosity by Jews toward Christians at Christmas are buried in the back sections."

That's why I'm thinking there's more to this *story* than meets the eye, veronica.
Of course, I fully realize the absurdity of my ever even suggesting the nation's mediots would ever tell less than the whole truth, attempt to manipulate public opin or stir up hatred. :o)

"I'll just have to post some articles."

Well you go right ahead & do that, it's your time; but, also know posting it'll never be recieved with quite the same level of *enthusiasm* this kind of thing is.

...just a fact of life.

[missyme]

That's not for you to decide they are Christian Believers.
Jesus did not die a Christian did he he died a Jew.

I have many friends as well as extended family members who embrace there Jewish heritage and believe in the Messianic view of Christ.

I don't mean to be dis-respectful but there are so many Jewish folks that don't even know what a Christian is or what that means, and I am not directing that statement to you, but I do know some Jews that have no clue they think a christian is a gentile

[missyme]

What is idiotic? I am a christian and I know the religious significance of the Mennorah, yet the YENTAS of Palm Beach have no clue, that is idiotic.

[missyme]

This is the problem with the Older folks:

I am a Baby Boomer, but I will say that history and intolerance should be respected by the generations that come after the people that suffered them.

I have met people that suffered the horrible atrocities of the Holocaust as well as a person whose family were slaves in the south, there is no doubt about it we have been a horrible world to many denominations in the past,but it is 2003 we have major problems with the ARAB world and the intolerance they have with everybody.

It is almost 2004, Christians and Jews should promote EVERYTHING that promotes PEACE. The Mennorrah has great significance with respects to Hannukkah and Christmas is a time of PEACE that is what Jesus is about PEACE. If you want to be a nation of religious tolerance than The Nativity scene and the Mennorah should be shown as we our a nation that truly believes in the G-d creator of mankind.

I did not mean to sound harsh.
Happy Hannukkah and Happy New Year!
Freeper:Missyme

[sully777]

In my town there are X-mas decorations placed on all gov't buildings and roadways. There is an X-mas parade. All paid for by taxpayer money. The members of traditional christian denominations don't care much to ask Jews, Jehovah Witnesses, or sabbatarian christians if they should/should not celebrate X-Mas. JMO, they don't care much for SCOTUS rulings that cut into their interests either.

The latter groups don't waste their breath in protest. What would be the point of causing divisions and hard feelings? Because the flip side to not protesting this simple once-a-year demonstration of one groups religious belief on the taxpayer's dime...affords Jews, Jehovah Witness, and sabbatarian christians the freedom/community good will to do their own thing the rest of the year. JMO, the latter groups do not care to ask the former's opinion on whether they should/should not express their religious beliefs openly. Nor does the latter care much for SCOTUS rulings cutting into their interests either.

In the end, all groups are generally-speaking conservative constitutionalist that give a collective raspberry to the ACLU and the SCOTUS rulings. In the end we all get along just fine and have a laugh at the rest of the world gone mad.

---

Sometimes I think agitation and protesting preceived slights to one's own religion/idealism causes more grief in the long run. Whatever happen to the old idea of grinning and bearing it for the sake of the common good?

[missyme]

Your community needs to rub off on the rest of us.:-)

[Guvmint_Cheese]

Amen.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to you too!

[sully777]

You know what's funny about my community's X-Mas celebrations? For the most part they strive to make it as secular as possible so as not to offend. The city father's bought oversized snowflakes to hang on the old early 20th century steel light posts. The electricity moves through both the upper bulb and the snowflake. It's actually a spectacular sight when the winter night fogs roll in and mists up the light into a rainbowed aura. Most of the decorations are along that line of thinking. Of course, we have the oversized Santaland in the military park complete with blairing holiday music and Santa narrative. We also have the X-Mas train decorations at the county courthouse.

Conversely, my town has traffic jams on Saturday as the Jews, SDA's and all let out after their religious services. And the local JW's Kingdom Hall is one of the largest in the area. On the other side of town, the local Freemasons added a new roof with a G-symbol that lights up at night right across the highway from the new Baptist Temple. Meanwhile, the Fransiscan monks gas up their SUVs at the local gas station when they come in from the enclave on the northeatern side. The Amish and Mennonite families eat at the new Mexican restaurant while the New Age hippies come down off the distant mountain east of the lake to shop at the Wal-Mart Supercenter.

I guess we're a hallmark of Roger William's idea of religious tolerance in the New World!

[Rockitz]

I think Christians are out-manned in this situation. There are far more Jewish attorneys than Christian attorneys. I suspect the term Christian attorney may be an oxymoron. (c8

[eleni121]

but it is 2003 we have major problems with the ARAB world and the intolerance they have with everybody.

It is not the Arab world but rather the Muslim world that is on a jihad against the west.

Merry Christmas

[GladesGuru]

Using shyster Randell's argument, it would be possible to claim that a swastika, and an invitation to a KKK cross burning, would be OK if posted on a road sign pole.

Once again, the scum certainly rises to the top in the Sheeples Republic of FloriDUH.

[GladesGuru]

"Drive the town attorney out to the Everglades, shoot him in both knees and let him walk home".


Dear Thoughtomator,

Can't be done. Federal rules forbid introducing a point source of pullution into the Everglades.

Secondly, PETA would raise fearful ructions if a gator were to eat something like that. Cruelty to poor dumb animals, don't 'ya know?

[GladesGuru]

Actually, ACLU was originally funded by the old USSR as a means of defending American Communists. Many were NYC jews who brought a taste for Marx with them when they came from Europe, or got it from their Mommies when growing up here.

And don't even think of calling me an anti-semite, unless you like the taste of crow.

[longtermmemmory]

The menorah is secular, is just pure BS. When the menorah is obviously religious because the lights come on in succession over the days, it is funded by a jewish based group, it is a religious symbol.

It passes the duck test.

[little jeremiah]

Generally the Jews who do not defend the rights of religious expression are secular Jews - maybe Jewish by ethnicity, but not by religious observance or faith. Generally Jews who are observant, are respectful of the rights of others to express themselves. This is all generally speaking.

[little jeremiah]

Where do you live, I want to move there!