Is the Death Penalty Morally Equal to Abortion? Bishops Preach Politics Rather than Gospel Truth

CCI NEWS SERVICE ^ | 12/16/2003 | Dr. Brian Kopp

[sitetest]

Dear madprof98,

In my world, the pope shows us what it is to be Catholic.

But the pope has not taught that the death penalty is, per se, wrong. If that is your understanding of Catholic teaching, you need a little remedial work.


sitetest

[redhead]

"Who are the innocent? Aren't we all born with original sin? What good is a "trial" when you're condemned from inception to be guilty?"

Just because we are born with an itch for sin doesn't mean we have acted on that itch. How can an unborn child commit a sin?

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

Also, the death penalty is condoned by God, the author of morality. That being the case, the death penalty can not be immoral.

[FormerLib]

Never nice piece of work. I'm pinging this for later reading/distribution.

Thanks!

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Not exactly, though the overall sentiment you state is correct. The Pope is the leader of the Roman Church, however, he is unable to overturn centuries of Church doctrine, he can just more clearly focus doctrine. If the Pope were to say Abortion is ok, the Church would not. I think that is a needed distinction to make.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

For Infallibility to be used, it must be proclaimed, this Pope, has not proclaimed his teachings on the death penalty Ex Cathedra, or infallible. That is a distinction that has to be made. Yes, the Pope can ultimately bind or loose things as given to him by Christ through Peter in Matthew, but he has to proclaim that that is what he is doing, otherwise it is his opinion and not infallible. He has not proclaimed the Death Penalty in a manner in accordance with Catechism 891.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

And I will admit, my own feelings on the death penalty are quite conflicted. But I also firmly believe that the theological justification for the current Church stance on the death penalty is highly suspect. The current opposistion to the Death Penalty (though not condemnation) lies with the need for the State to defend itself. I Think that is a dangerous primary reason to either have or not have the death penalty. It is also a big departure for the past on the Death penalty, with focused on the retributive side of the Death Penalty. To build support or opposistion completely on Defense of the State is dangerous, because one could argue that other things are necessary to protect the state even if they are morally evil. Just a thought.

[Prolifeconservative]

"Also, the death penalty is condoned by God, the author of morality."

How do you come to that conclusion?

What is wrong with lifetime incarceration? If we as Christians truly believe in God's Omnimpotence, then how can we not allow Him to be the final arbiter of a man's earthly existence.

If a man sits on death Row and is set to be executed on June 15th and so it follows, how do we know it was not God's arbitrary will to reach down and touch this man's heart and save his eternal soul on June 16th!!! We, as mere humans took that out of God's hands.

And lest anyone take me to task for this conclusion, I ask that you recall the story of Saul's conversion.

[Kozak]

No one is fond of taking responsibility for his actions, but consider how much you'd have to hate free will to come up with a political platform that advocates killing unborn babies but not convicted murderers...... A callous pragmatist might favor abortion and capital punishment.... A devout Christian would sanction neither.... But it takes years of therapy to arrive at the Liberal view.........

PJ O'Rourke

[concerned about politics]

Well, first of all, abortion is performed on an innocent, unborn child, whereas the death penalty is applied against an adult with free will who has committed a heinous crime.

The Bible says man kind is born into sin. Aborted infants are not yet born into sin, therefore without sin, or sin free.
The criminals are not only born into sin, but chose through their own free will to commit the worst of sin.

[schmelvin]

Does anyone know if the Bible actually dilineates between a "murder" and a "killing." In other words, what differentiates the two and makes one always wrong (murder) and one wrong except in certain circumstances(killing)?

The Bible addresses in much detail the differences between cold-blooded murder, manslaughter, revenge killing, capital punishment, killing in self-defense, killing as part of your duties (e.g. soldiers killing in combat), etc.

Murder is punishable by death. Manslaughter is not. Revenge killing is wrong. Capital punishment is not. Killing in self-defense is justified. Soldiers killing combatants is justifiable, too (it's an expanded form of self-defense, because soldiers are defending themselves, their platoons, their country. It is not OK for soldiers to abuse their positions for their own selfish gain, though. The Bible forbids them to rape, pillage, and deliberately kill innocents).

I wish I could supply you with verses, but can't off the top of my head. If you do research it, you will find ample verses in the Bible that support what I've said.

The Bible does not specifically use the word abortion that I'm aware of, but does address the unborn. A child in the womb is regarded as a miracle, a wonder, and as a person that God already knows and loves.

I don't see how anyone who reads the Bible can honestly believe that God would condone killing unborn children. Everything that God says about how we should treat one another (do unto others as you would have done unto you, love thy neighbor as thyself, etc.) tells me that God would view abortion as a terrible, terrible sin.

[MEGoody]

"Who are the innocent? Aren't we all born with original sin? What good is a "trial" when you're condemned from inception to be guilty?"

Depends on what you mean by 'born with original sin'. A child is born with the tendency to sin, but I doubt it has already sinned. We aren't 'guilty' just for being born, but for the sins we have committed.

Of course, I realize there are those who think a baby who dies cannot go to heaven if it wasn't baptised. I don't see support for that view in scripture, and it sure negates the view of a loving, compassionate, merciful and just God.

[MEGoody]

"That, in the Catholic church, is up to the Pope. Regardless of what Aquinas, Luther, or Jesus said."

Regardless of what Jesus said???

Oh, my.

[MEGoody]

"If we as Christians truly believe in God's Omnimpotence, then how can we not allow Him to be the final arbiter of a man's earthly existence."

He is. And He instituted the death penalty. Life for life.

Of course, we as individuals aren't to carry that out. We are to turn the other cheek. But government has a different role than the individual

[Prolifeconservative]

Check out the 10 Commandments!

[madprof98]

Of course, we as individuals aren't to carry that out. We are to turn the other cheek. But government has a different role than the individual

How odd it was for Christ to have ordered individual Christians to turn the other cheek but then to allow those very same Christians to do the exact opposite when they act as agents of the state. I understand this odd distinction comes from Thomas Aquinas, but he was wrong on other life-issues as well.