State Department urges non-essential diplomats...

Drudge ^

[kabar]

Oh please, your wife drove, worked in public, could walk around in normal clothing not dressed in an all covering sack so as not to be raped by men who can not control themselves unless the woman is covered and not seen, talk to anybody about anything (man or woman) she wanted to, did not need a man in public places to go with her, not to mention go to Synagog or Church with her Bible. Or was this just in the compound you lived in that she enjoyed freedom

My wife was not permitted to drive. Fortunately, drivers were provided by the Embassy, available 24 hours a day. Other diplomatic missions and institutions (including saudis) did something similar. My wife didn't work on the "outside", but there are women only enterprises including banks where Saudi and other women worked. She wore an abaya over her western dress, but did not cover her head. Whenever she was approached by the mutawaa (religious police), she gave them hell and they backed off. She was not accompanied by a man when she was shopping in the souk. There is no religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. There are no churches or Synagogs, which is not the case in many Muslim countries.

[Lady Heron]

You seem to have a visceral dislike for Islam.

I do.

[Lady Heron]

There is a wide spectrum of the ways Islam is practiced throughout the world. Islam in Turkey, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, and the Kingdom, to name a few, is practiced much differently.

I know, I studied the religion and its sects and the societies it created, and thus the contempt for the religion. The religion has almost everything to do with the politics of the region in some way or another.

[Lady Heron]

The militant fundamentalists are the ones we need to deal with. Islam needs a reformation movement just like Christianity had.

Islam can not have a reformation like Christianity which brought it to actually following the words of the Bible. That is isalm's and the world's problem...fundamentalist who actually take the koran seriously. The only way to for islam to change is to not follow what the koran says; then what would be the point of the religion???

You are right on one thing, the fundamentalist need to be dealt with.

[Lady Heron]

With more than a billion people professing the faith and the number increasing daily, it is not going to go away.

So true, in the end it will have to be dealt with, or our grandchildren will loose their freedoms.

Islam has had to be dealt with over and over through history. You either brutally beat it back, in such a way that terrifies them for a century or longer or you loose to them and convert and loose your freedom. A lot of the Christian worlds most horrific behavior came in driving back islamic hords. In the end it was the only thing that saved them. What a pity that it was needed.

[Lady Heron]

In the end it was the only thing that saved them. What a pity that it was needed.

I talking about the historic brutallity needed to defend Christianity against islam.

[Bob J]

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[CaptRon]

Hopefully it's to avoid friendly fire.

[sawyer]

I live over their and in the open, where you shopped on the out side etc. Husband and I only Western in this place, I would get out of they told me to. I just loved the every day people but all those police running around with large guns and always looking at your papers did wear thin very fast.

[happygrl]

what makes the Saudi Royals, royal? I recall reading something about how they are different from the Royal Family of Jordan.

I'm no expert, but the rulers of Jordan are the Hashemites, the family that had responsibility (rulership) for both Mecca and Medina, before they were driven out by the Sauds, who were then installed as the rulers of Saudi Arabia by the British after WWI.

The Hashemites, I believe, have a direct lineage to Mohammed, the Prophet, whereas the Sauds do not.

I also read something about the House of Saud being part "Westernized" and part "Wahabist" (sic).

Some of the Saudi Princes have spent considerable time in the West, such as Prince Bandar, who was the Saudi Ambassor to the US for many years.

Others have spent very little or no time in the West and are old-line Princes of the Desert.

[hummingbird]

The Hashemites, I believe, have a direct lineage to Mohammed, the Prophet, whereas the Sauds do not...

Some of the Saudi Princes have spent considerable time in the West, such as Prince Bandar, who was the Saudi Ambassor to the US for many years.

Others have spent very little or no time in the West and are old-line Princes of the Desert.

Thanks, happygrl! Time for me to hit the books a little harder on this topic! Wonder how the Saudis will react to the news regarding Libya today?