Vatican Shuffler (Cardinal Martino exposes the Church to mockery)

The American Prowler ^ | 12/17/2003 | George Neumayr

[nickcarraway]

George Neumayr Ping

[Lancey Howard]

Thanks for the ping.

[txzman]

I heard this today and just shook my head. Heading to uselessnes and obscurity quickly. My hope that the RCC gets taken firmly into the hands of the layity.

[cricket]

"They deform Catholic teaching and call it development. And it is one -- a development of Catholicism into modern liberalism. . . .

The opposition to war and the death penalty is not coming from a more acute understanding of Church teaching but from a culture of modern liberalism hostile to it that has long grown inside the Church."

'Amen' to the damning, ruinous world of Liberalism.

[little jeremiah]

Yup. I am not a Catholic, but I have the greatest respect for those that I know (and don't know). But when I read stuff like this:

"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow. They could have spared us these pictures," he said. "Seeing him like this, a man in his tragedy, despite all the heavy blame he bears, I have compassion for him."

I am sorry and ashamed... This can't be the real teachings of Catholicism.

[tessalu]

The Vatican can not even take care of it's own pedophile priests, and have no business telling anyone what they think they should do.

[dasboot]

The trouble is that the CC is just like a communist party: the prez is selected by the inner circle, and defective dogma n' stuff in compounded.

I think the CC should become democratic, permitting the members to elect the honcho. Norm Schwartscopf (sp?) would be a great pope. Is he Catholic?

[enuu]

It's not the dogma that's defective, the stuff spouted by these guys is not dogma, it's not even doctrine, it is merely their opinion. What matters is only what the Pope says, which is readable on his official website. Also, nice idea about Norm, but the pope is elected from within the College of Cardinals, a group that has changed radically under the current pope as he has appointed many more from third world countries and latin america. But within the Vatican, there is still the European mindset.

[Prime Choice]

I think the Cardinal needs to re-evaluate his moral compass. He of all people should appreciate that one should show no sympathy for the Devil.

And on that thought...

[HiTech RedNeck]

"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow

Well, moo.

[HiTech RedNeck]

What matters is only what the Pope says, which is readable on his official website.

This sounds like a grand technicality, when a real high-up opens his mouth to pontificate (pardon the pun), shoving his foot so far down his own mouth that it reappears out his hind end, and he isn't immediately served a heaping helping of "shut the *bleep* up." Can you imagine the furor in, say, the Southern Baptist Convention if something analogous happened?

[bigcat00]

Unfortunately, in statements surrounding the war, the Vatican seems to have turned its back on centuries of just war teaching and now appears to assume that any war is unjust. That is NOT the Catholic position as it has been traditionally held. Something similar happened with the death penalty, as Justice Scalia points out. It seems to me that it is, rather, the tendency of a lot of Western intellectuals to weenie out when it comes to assigning blame and to feel more sympathy for the criminal than the victim.

In any event, this kind of stuff is embarassing to me. I became a Catholic after being born and raised a Protestant, and I don't regret it. Both Catholics and Protestants have a lot to be embarassed about historically, and suggestions that the church become more democratic, I think, are naive, ahistorical and unbiblical. But, unfortunately, some folks in the Church, like alot of Protestants, have forgotten where they came from on at least some issues. This is a general Western tendency. But Christ promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against his church. I trust and pray that this too shall pass.

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

This poor excuse for a leader is part of the Holy See to the UN. Contact information is:

.Address
25 East 39th Street
New York, NY 10016-0903
(Voice/Data
Tel: (212) 370-7885
Fax: (212) 370-9622
8 E-mail
holysee@un.int

I urge all Catholics to help take back the Church from these wackos who are taking over.

[dsc]

"when a real high-up"

He's not really that high up. There are lots of low- and mid-level functionaries at the Vatican.

"and he isn't immediately served a heaping helping of "shut the *bleep* up."

I think millions of Catholics would love to feed him a spoonful of that.

"Can you imagine the furor in, say, the Southern Baptist Convention if something analogous happened?"

These days, to have furor you have to have media coverage, and I really don't think the media are going to give the other side a hearing, do you?

[Salvation]

Keeping this article bumped!

[Salvation]

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[Salvation]

**I think the CC should become democratic,**

Won't happen!

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Thank God for that, I tend to think we'd be outnumbered by the liberal and progressive (read dissenting) Catholics. I do tend to view the recent pronouncements on the Death Penalty and War as misguided, they are developing Church teachings from positions, they have never been before, the ground is being laid for a dissenter (if ever elected, Holy Spirit will prevent that I pray), to overturn centuries of Church teachings on everything.

[Unam Sanctam]

I agree with your misgivings. On death penalty, it is still (just barely possible) to reconcile the Pope's teachings as consistent with Tradition if it is seen as a prudential decision about whether society needs it in the present state. The pacifism of Cardinal Martino is shocking and disgraceful, although it is not dogma and has not yet reversed the just war teaching. I don't recall hearing the Vatican uttering any condemnation of Saddam Hussein's numerous human rights violations and violations of international law. They were against the first Gulf War, for goodness' sake, when Saddam had clearly violated international law by invading another country.