Technology exists to make guns safer (3rd day in the row, hatchet job)

Detroit News ^ | 12-16-03 | Melvin Claxton

[Dan from Michigan]

The advertisement for the brand new Smith & Wesson handgun promised it all.

"Safe for the expert," the ad stated. "Safe for the layman, his family and friends. Safe for the novice. Safe from the child and the careless. Safe from all possibility of discharge from a blow, fall, or any kind of accident.

[Dan from Michigan]

Many have been wounded or killed when their guns accidentally discharged or were unintentionally fired because of manufacturers’ safety omissions.

ONCE AGAIN! 1. Never point at a gun at anything you do not wish to destroy. 2. Guns are ALWAYS loaded. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

no federal agency can set standards for firearms manufactured in the country.

Horse Manure. BATF.

[Dan from Michigan]

Here we go again!!

[Servant of the 9]

I have a totally safe 1911A1 .45 auto.
The grip safety has been pinned down, the blocking cam has been ground off of the conventional safety, and the half cock notch removed from the hammer.

If the hammer is down, it is totally safe. If the hammer is back it is unconditionaly ready to fire.

So9

[aomagrat]

[longtermmemmory]

These articles could be set ups for "experts" to rely on in testimony in product defect trials. Is the author related somehow to a law firm?

[elbucko]

Announcing that "the foremost consideration in firearms manufacturing is to produce a weapon that is safe under all conditions," Smith & Wesson unveiled its new gun to the world.

The year was 1914.

And darn few bought them because the mechanisms were expensive and troublesome.

Many have been wounded or killed when their guns accidentally discharged or were unintentionally fired because of manufacturers’ safety omissions.

No. Many have been wounded or killed because they were not trained in the use of firearms and, most importantly, trained in the "etiquette" of handling a firearm. This "etiquette" used to be taught to the gun "newbie" by Dad or Granddad. Now the handling of a gun is taught by the movies. No matter how many safety devices are added to a gun, there are always the ignorant and the obstinate that will defeat them. Such as pinning the grip safety on a 1911.

[RicocheT]

Bingo, this whole series of articles was probably fed to the Detroit newspaper by a trial attorney and Handgun Control Inc.

It repeats all the old canards on "safe guns." Of course, if you want a reliable firearm that goes bang when you point it at the thug who is ready to take you life, you don't want that battery operated, voice recognition, grip safety wonder gun described in the article.

[Ancesthntr]

If smart guns are so great and so safe, why is it that NJ (which has mandated that no conventional handguns can be sold to the public once a smart gun has been invented) has exempted its own police from this law? 'Nuf said.

[MD_Willington_1976]

Great..evertime my neighbour uses his garage door opener I'll hear my handgun or rifle being dry fired in the gun safe....</sarcasm

Stay safe.

[longtermmemmory]

They could put every "bullet indicator" in a gun but you would still have to treat every gun as if it is loaded no matter what.

[non-anonymous]

If this guy thinks guns are too unsafe, why doesn't he start a business making safety devices for them? If he's correct, he'll be rolling in dough.

[longtermmemmory]

The first sentence in the article says it all. "ignoring research"

This is about trying to legitimize the junk science to be used by expert witnesses.

If a Liability firm advertizes in the newspaper, do you think the paper would cover a subject the firm wanted covered? Of course they would.

(BTW this at the same time as silicon implants are re-introduced)

[Blood of Tyrants]

Yep, I'll stick with my old fashioned "dumb guns", thank you.

Personally, I expect the firearms companies to avoid "smart guns" like the plague. The government will demand that they operate ONLY by the designated owners and have the ability to disable them remotely. The gun haters lawyers will sue if ANY of them accidentally discharge under ANY circumstance or if the wrong person can fire them. Gun owners and their lawyers will demand that the technology be 100% reliable under even the most severe conditions and that the electronics fail in the Fire position.

[longtermmemmory]

Has anyone done a serious survey of the political leanings of lawyers? No all lawyers are ACLU quacks or members of the ABA.

If we will not do business with lawyers who are anti-gun it will go very far. It will be no different that avoiding the dixie chix or g. clooney.

[Travis McGee]

I can't wait to see all of the police departments and FLEAs leading the way to these new safe firearms.

Let them test them out on THEIR weapons for a decades, and then give civilians the option to use them.

[DBrow]

If smart gun technology works, let's force auto manufacturers to use it and end car theft.

Think of the money saved in a single year!

Then let's have the police use it once all car manufacturers are using it.

The goal of smart gun technology is to produce a handgun that cannot be used for defense.

[supercat]

The grip safety has been pinned down, the blocking cam has been ground off of the conventional safety, and the half cock notch removed from the hammer. If the hammer is down, it is totally safe. If the hammer is back it is unconditionaly ready to fire.

If there is a round chambered, hammer down, how do you cock the hammer without putting your thumb at risk? Even if the gun is pointed in a safe direction, slipping while trying to cock it and having the gun discharge with your thumb in the immediate vicimity of the hammer could really spoil your day.

Also, I'm curious why you would want to remove a feature that would allow the pistol to be safely carried in a condition of readiness higher than would be possible without it. Carrying a 1911 in Condition One is safe, and such carry is indeed a designed mode of operation. With the thumb safety removed, the 1911 must be carried in Condition Two or Condition Three, and of those Condition Three is probably the higher state of practical readiness.

Or would you actually be brave enough to carry a 1911 in Condition Zero? [nb: I have no trouble with Condition Zero carry of firearms that are designed for such. But the 1911 isn't.]

[supercat]

They could put every "bullet indicator" in a gun but you would still have to treat every gun as if it is loaded no matter what.

I'd like to see an experiment: take a bunch of random test subjects and let them handle sixteen pistols, one in each combination of (1) loaded-chamber indicator or not; (2) "loaded" (with snap cap) chamber or not; (3) loaded magazine or not; (4) cocked or not. Have the test subjects mark down whether they believe each pistol is loaded or not.

Aside from the fact that some wise people would mark "loaded" for all sixteen without even bothering to handle any of them, it would be interesting to see whether the existence of the loaded-chamber indicator had any meaningful effect on people's judgements of condition. My guess would be not. I would expect that people unfamiliar with firearms would probably regard Jennings, Lorcins, and similar pistols as loaded whenever they were cocked, regardless of their chamber state (nb: if one of those firearms is decocked it's probably unloaded). Loaded-chamber indicators, though, are IMHO basically useless. Anyone who doesn't know every gun is always loaded won't know how to read the indicator, and anyone who knows how to read the indicator should know better than to trust it.

[Servant of the 9]

If there is a round chambered, hammer down, how do you cock the hammer without putting your thumb at risk?

Also, I'm curious why you would want to remove a feature that would allow the pistol to be safely carried in a condition of readiness higher than would be possible without it.

It is a para-Ordnance P-10 modified to replace my old Detonics Combatmaster. The back of the slide is cut down, as on the Detonics so that it is as easy to cock while drawing as a single action colt. It is just as fast as Condition One and I am used to it.
It also has no sights. Out to 25 yards, the rib of the slide is all anyone needs, and the sight line along it is cleaner and faster without the sights.

I have other 1911s with all safeties operational.

So9

[supercat]

The back of the slide is cut down, as on the Detonics so that it is as easy to cock while drawing as a single action colt.

I guess I'm having a hard time picturing a 1911 modified so as to be as easy to cock on the draw as a single-action revolver. Though I'll admit to some curiosity as to what is "wrong" with a half-cock notch (which from what I understand exists primarily to prevent accidents while cocking). I'm assuming, based on your tone, that your 1911 doesn't have any other form of trigger-operated firing-pin block. So are you that confident that you'll never slip?