[Hoosier-Daddy]

Anyone know what it takes to sue the U.S. government?

[AD from SpringBay]

This makes me want to wretch! How bad is this mess going to get before the taxpayers decide to do something about it?

[Ron in Acreage]

The sooner it's ruined the better for us who want it privatized. I'd rather keep my 15% and invest it as I see fit. Not some asshole politicians doing it for (against) me. You pay all your life to SS and when you die it's gone. At least private plans would be left to a beneficiary.

[org.whodat]

I see another one term BUSH as the result.

[boycott]

Meanwhile, we have soldiers fighting for the best interest of the American people. Mexico, however, refuses to support our troops.

I support "W" in so many ways. I will promise that he WON'T get my vote if he continues to pander to Mexico and every other special interest group.

[philetus]

Is it time yet?

[BenLurkin]

no . . . . No . . . . NO .. . . NO! . . . NO!

[CindyDawg]

Well, I think the best solution is for both nations to stop salivating over these tax dollars and exempt legals from SSI and send the illegals home and tell them to quit cutting in line.

[litany_of_lies]

To be perfectly frank, the last few days have been so discouraging I'm tempted to renounce political activism and put my head in the sand (it hurts less that way). The ideas that are being discussed as possibilities are the kinds of things that would have been laughed off the political stage just 10 years ago (DLs for illegals, limits on political but no other kind of speech, mortgages for illegals, Tommy Thompson's amnesty, and now this SSN thing).

The SocSec figures listed are ridiculously low-balled in a number of ways:
- It starts with all of the cost figures. When you divide cost by beneficiaries, the result is about $2,000, even for current payments to those who move to foreign countries. That's more like a monthly benefit for a wage-earner who earned near the maximum taxable amount for most of his working career (current max benefit is about $18,000) PLUS a stay-at home spouse (spouse's benefit would normally be another 50% on top of that if they are the same age, so a grand total potential maximum of $27,000). I would say multiply the per-person and therefore total costs by about 6 and you'd have an accurate cost estimate.
- The quoted benefit per person in the article of $8,100 is very low, because it includes a lot of past retirees, who went out with lower benefits due to lower wages.
- Illegals with bogus SSNs are paying into the system and would surely demand benefits even though they are here illegally. If a half million illegals and their spouses start collecting about $15,000 a year in benefits (benefit levels are higher per dollar earned at lower earnings levels), it would cost $7.5 BILLION each year, for starters.
- If you finish losing control of the SSN numbering system (we're well on our way to that), the potential for massive fraud is incredible, and the chances of prosecution for committing it in the current moral climate are very low. Hundreds of people colluded in massive fraud during the final three years of the Clinton Administration at the Department of Education, and I'm not aware that any prosecution of anybody ever occurred.
- The current estimate of illegals in the country of 5 million is probably low. Many others estimate 8-12 mil.
- The impact of incentivizing illegal immigration are not quantified.
- This action would give no incentive to Mexico to heal itself. Vicente Fox has been a major disppointment on that front.

I'm trying to think of when I have been more discouraged about this country's future. Maybe 1979 during the Carter nightmare, but this is really worse because much of it is being done or proposed by the people I thought were usually the good guys.

And while I'm in the neighborhood, let me criticize the late Robert Bartley for the one glaring blind spot in an otherwise stellar editorial career: illiegal immigration.

[Pro-Bush]

Isn't Social Security already in the tank?

[SpaceBar]

I hesitate to make the following statement, since it is
unenforceable, and unproveable by myself, if this garbage
passes, I will not vote for Bush in 04. Period. He could run
against Hillary Clinton. He will not get my vote. I'm tired
of being sold up the river.

[vladog]

OK let's just run up the white flag, declare Mexico City the capital of once USA and allow Mr. Fox to loot the rest of what was the USA.

Neither major party in this country wants to put a stop to this Mexican pandering, so this will just go on and on.

[potlatch]

Did you see this?

[Forgiven_Sinner]

There is a little bit of "the sky is falling" on this thread. Sure, such a decision (to pay Mexicans SS) would be an abomination. SS should be converted to individual savings accounts--for American citizens. But this bill will have to pass congress and we can Freep the day lights out of them--enough to scare them off. I personally pledge to write every member of congress a snail mail letter if this comes up. Who will follow me? 50,000 snail mail letters to each member of Congress would make a noise heard across this nation. They know there are a 100 people who agree with every letter they receive.

[3catsanadog]

I give up - just go ahead and take my whole !#$$@@% paycheck, Uncle Sam. I'm only just a natural born white straight single female U.S. citizen of 53 with no children who obeys the law. No special interest here for you to worry about, so go ahead, take all my money and give it to people more deserving.

[ohmage]

The GAO seems to grasp the problem.

From http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03993.pdf

...A totalization agreement with Mexico will increase the number of Mexican citizens who will be paid U.S. social security benefits in two ways. First, the agreement will make it easier for Mexican workers to qualify for benefits. Second, it will remove some nonpayment restrictions that affect benefit payments to non-U.S. family members residing in another country, thus providing U.S. social security benefits to more survivors and dependents of entitled Mexican workers...

At least the ssa is qualifying the payments to 'entitled' Mexican workers.

But wait!!! There's more!!! The GAO raises some questions about how the U.S. ssa determined the Mexican ssa controls and integrity of the Mexican data...

...SSA took no technical staff on this visit to assess system controls or data integrity processes. In effect, SSA only briefly observed the operations of the Mexican social security program. Moreover, SSA did not document its efforts or perform any additional analyses then, or at a later time, to assess the integrity of Mexico's social security data and the controls over that data. In particular, SSA officials provided no evidence they examined key elements of Mexico's program such as its controls over the posting of earnings and its processes for obtaining key birth and death information for Mexican citizens. Nor did SSA evaluate how access to Mexican data and records is controlled and monitored to prevent unauthorized use or whether internal and external audit functions exist to evaluate operations...

Nor did SSA evaluate how access to Mexican data and records is controlled and monitored to prevent unauthorized use or whether internal and external audit functions exist to evaluate operations...

I thought that was worth repeating.

[NewRomeTacitus]

No means no when a rape is in progress.

[Mrs Zip]

ping

[Fledermaus]

While millions of Americans under 30 will never see a dime.

It's time to dump this socialist program.

[nutmeg]

read later