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ANNOUNCER: Tonight, in "Broken Borders," Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge says millions of illegal aliens in this country should be given legal status. We'll be joined by two congressmen to discuss this critically important issue.

DOBBS: In "Broken Borders" tonight, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge is calling for the legalization of millions of illegal aliens living in this country.

Speaking at a Dade County town hall meeting near Miami yesterday, Ridge said -- and we quote -- "The bottom line is, as a country, we have to come to grips with the presence of eight to 12 million illegals, afford them some kind of legal status, some way, but also, as a country, decide what our immigration policy is and then enforce it."

Joining me now, two members of Congress who have outspoken views on the issue of immigration reform, Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado. He chairs the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, joining us tonight from Denver.

Good to have you with us, Congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Congressman Howard Berman of California, a member of the International Relations Committee. In September, he co-authored a bill giving illegal aliens permanent residency, joining us tonight from Los Angeles.

Congressman, good to have you with us.

This statement by Tom Ridge coming something of a bolt from the blue, Congressman Tancredo. What's your reaction?

REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: Secretary Ridge is way, way, way out of line here.

First of all, the creation of immigration policy or changing immigration policy is the responsibility of the Congress, and the Congress alone. His responsibility is to enforce it. If he doesn't like the policy, if he thinks he can't enforce it because he doesn't have the resources, he has two choices.

He comes to the Congress and says, I need the resources to enforce the law, or, I choose not to enforce the law and I'm going to resign. His is not to make a determination as to which laws should be enforced and which should not. We have an immigration policy. It's now certainly imperfect in many ways, but the secretary should enforce the law or resign.

DOBBS: Congressman Berman, let me ask you, your reaction?

REP. HOWARD BERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Tom Ridge is a former congressman. He knows full well that the Congress legislates our immigration policy.

What he was showing was leadership in recognizing the reality of the situation. We have a law. We haven't been able to enforce it. We've invested billions of dollars, massive expansion of Border Patrol, tremendous amount of new technologies, and we still haven't been able to enforce that border. What he's trying to do is come to grips with the reality of the situation, that there are probably eight to 12 million undocumented people in this country. And in a place like...

DOBBS: Congressman, can I ask you a question?

BERMAN: Sure. DOBBS: You just said undocumented people. Do you mean illegal aliens?

BERMAN: People who came here illegally, who crossed the border in violation of the law.

DOBBS: Where do we come up with this language? Who are we trying to protect or kid. Undocumented. They're illegal aliens.

BERMAN: You can call them a lot of different things. You can call most of them hard-working, taxpaying people trying to help our economy.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: They came here illegally. They're human beings. Because

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Congressman, I would not argue with you.

TANCREDO: They broke the law. You understand that they broke the law?

DOBBS: But we start with the first issue. They are illegal aliens.

Congressman?

BERMAN: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: I'm sorry. That wasn't particularly helpful, was it, to say, Congressman, to two congressmen? I apologize.

(LAUGHTER)

DOBBS: Congressman Tancredo, let me ask you this.

One of the things that -- and you as well, Congressman Berman. The fact is, Tom Ridge did say it. He said it out loud: Let's come up with a national immigration policy. We can argue about language. We can argue about numbers. We can't argue about one thing. We have a huge number of illegal aliens in the country. We don't have an immigration policy that either works, makes sense. And we don't have a party on either the side of the Democrats or the Republicans who seem to have the guts to deal with the issue.

What do we do here?

Congressman Berman, you first, please.

BERMAN: Well, Lou, I've listened to you for a while state the problem. It's the solution that's the difficulty. We have an immigration policy, but it hasn't been enforced. It's called our law. We allow a reasonable, generous amount of immigration through the legal system, based on family relationships, specific skills, and in keeping with the tradition of home for refugees and people who are fleeing from persecution.

The problem has been that we thought, in 1986, through the use of employer sanctions and a massively increased Border Patrol, that we would be able to deal with the problem of illegal immigration.

DOBBS: And full amnesty. And full amnesty.

BERMAN: And it turned we gave a full amnesty to probably 2.5 to three million people at that time. But the fact is, we weren't able to.

The single most effective tool to stop the crossing of the border -- there are other forms of illegal immigration, people coming here on temporary visas.

DOBBS: Right.

BERMAN: But for crossing the border, the single most effective thing we could do is to engage Mexico as a full partner in patrolling that border and dealing with the interior areas where

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: My gosh, Congressman, I have got to stop you.

And, Congressman Tancredo, you're freezing there and I apologize. But I've got to ask the congressman this.

A full partner? We couldn't have more of a full partner, could we? President Fox has the temerity to come to this country and, in three border states, tell people, governors, what they should be doing to provide benefits to simply state that he wants his people, that is, illegal aliens, provided for in this country, provided driver's licenses. That is one of the most remarkable statements I've ever heard from a head of state.

BERMAN: But we're not discussing -- Tom Ridge didn't talk about drivers' licenses and he didn't talk about providing

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: No, he didn't. He said, let's get an immigration policy.

BERMAN: What he said is, you have eight to 12 million people in this country without documents here illegally.

DOBBS: Right.

BERMAN: What are you going to do about it?

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Let's find out from Congressman Tom Tancredo, who is freezing out there.

And I apologize.

TANCREDO: Here's what you're going to do, Mr. Ridge. You are the secretary of homeland security. Your job is to enforce the law. That's what you're supposed to do. Don't ask questions about it. Enforce it.

If you can't do it, find somebody who will. Find somebody else who can. And I'll tell you another thing. This just drives me crazy, this idea that, oh, we've got 13 million people in here; the best way to actually deal with it is to just say that they all are legal and to essentially abandon the border. It's ridiculous. We can enforce the law if we choose to. We have the resources. What we don't have is the will.

I swear to you that we could employ both the technology and the human resources to both our northern and southern borders, so as to actually enforce our immigration laws and seal those borders effectively. No, could we make it so that every single person that wants to come across is stopped? No. But could we stop this massive flow of illegals into the country? Yes. We choose not to. We choose not to.

That's the whole issue here. We actually want, as a policy, illegal immigration, because it provides cheap labor.

(CROSSTALK)

TANCREDO: You know it. I know it. Howard, let's go ahead admit it, because, if we want to stop it, we can.

And, if Secretary Ridge says that he can't, we've got to find somebody else who can.

BERMAN: Lou, this -- you can rant and rave all you want. I don't accept what Tom says.

TANCREDO: Well, thanks.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: I don't think the secretary accepts what Tom says. We want to stop the illegal immigration.

TANCREDO: No, we don't, Howard. Oh, for heaven's sake.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Tom, Tom, you can say it all you want. The illegal immigration...

TANCREDO: I shall. I'll continue to say it as far as I can, as long as I can.

BERMAN: All right. Can I just interject for a second here?

DOBBS: Please.

TANCREDO: Go ahead.

BERMAN: Talk about homeland security.

You have eight million to 12 million people operating under false identification. We don't know who they are. We don't know where they reside. That is a very threatening system. We know certain industries are relying almost totally on the employment by these -- of these people; 90 percent of the people who plant and prune and harvest our crops in the Western United States are here using false identifiers.

They're subject to exploitation. They represent

(CROSSTALK)

TANCREDO: They're also subject to deportation.

DOBBS: I apologize.

Gentlemen, on...

BERMAN: Tremendous exploitation.

DOBBS: On the divide between exploitation and deportation, we are going to have to hold it. I hope you both will come back to discuss this issue.

TANCREDO: Will do.

DOBBS: Tom Tancredo, congressman of Colorado, thank you very much.

TANCREDO: You bet.

DOBBS: And Congressman Berman, thank you very much for being with us. Thanks, gentlemen.

It brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: Do you believe the United States should legalize millions of illegal aliens already living in this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results for you later in the show.

Next tonight, we'll share your thoughts about the exportation of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.

Also, our special report celebrating those Americans whose hard work keeps this country running. Tonight, a California garbage hauler whose workday begins well before dawn. Casey Wian has his story coming up next.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: We continue to update our list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting jobs to cheap foreign labor marks. These are companies sending those jobs overseas or choosing to employ cheap foreign labor, instead of employing U.S. workers.

We're asking for your help in identify the companies still. We've received thousand of e-mail. And I have to tell you, it's going to be taking us weeks. We will be taking weeks and weeks to confirm these notifications.

Tonight, we're adding to the list of companies. Again, all of these we have confirmed to be exporting America. And here we go. And bear with us. It's a huge list, and, in yellow, the new additions, 3M, Adaptec. That's a computer networking company in Milpitas, California, Advanced Micro Devices, Alcoa, Bechtel, Charles Schwab, ChevronTexaco, Cooper Tools. That manufactures assembly equipment. It's based in Lexington, South Carolina. Covad Communications, an Internet and online service provider based in Santa Clara, California. Ford Motor, JDS Uniphase, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Motorola, New York Life insurance company, Otis Elevator, the nation's No. 1 maker of elevators and a subsidiary of United Technologies, SBC Communications, Solectron Corporation, a contracts electronic manufacturer again based in Milpitas, California.

Well, please continue sending us the names of those companies you know to be exporting America." Send them to us at LouDobbs@CNN.com. We'll continue to report on them, as we confirm each one of those companies each evening right here.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts on "Exporting America."

From Willits, California: "It amazes me that the majority of people can see what the politicians and economic advisers can't. We see our borders be invaded by illegals and our jobs being sent to other countries. Yet the people who could and should stop it refuse to do anything" -- Rose Lewis Foster.

From Newmarket, New Hampshire: "Your show on exporting America is long overdue and greatly appreciated by those who make an honest effort to buy American. When shopping, I always look for the made-in- America label" -- Bill Blank.

From Chicago, Illinois: "Lou, I was quite surprised to see your show, 'Exporting America,' whining and whining about how Americans lose jobs to foreign countries, but did not even mention the underlying reason. Foreign goods are simply and cheaper. Foreigners work much harder and they're better educated in high-tech industries. It all boils down to competition. And the United States is losing" -- Sean Lee.

From Carmel, New York: "Why is it good to expert U.S. jobs overseas in the name of free trade, but bad for U.S. citizens to buy drugs from Canada and overseas at lower prices than are available in the United States? Is free trade only good when it benefits large corporations and executives?" -- Rick Boehme.

And from Forestville, California: "Lou, how you talk about 'Exporting America," then the following ad is from Deutsche Bank asking us to give them our money? How about a Miller Beer ad or something American, anyway?" -- George Quarles.

Well, actually, George, South African Breweries bought Miller Brewing in July of last year. So Miller is technically no longer truly an American company. But we get your point.

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at LouDobbs@CNN.com.