AMNESTY CRISIS: Fight Tom Ridge's new plan

Numbers USA ^ | 12-10-03 | Roy Beck

[Dante3]

Please send faxes, phone, and write letters. It can make a difference. Also contact Bill O'Reilly, various talks shows.

The government is supposed to enforce laws, not give perks to criminals.

There is no reason to want to keep illegals in this country and encourage more to come. Those who support amnesty for illegals:
1. have vested interests in cheap labor
2. are bribed or blackmailed
3. hate this country
4. prefer a Third World lifestyle
5. are terrorists, drug dealers or other criminals
6. are mentally ill or delusional

[Dante3]

Well stated!

[FITZ]

• Presently, most illegals live in poverty... • And people living in poverty tend to be a big Democrat constituancy.

Legalization doesn't make them middle class or educated. They don't learn English often even after 20 years of living in the USA ---- and that's because they refuse to learn and prefer to live in their own subculture.

[FITZ]

Some of those earlier groups came before we established the giant welfare state --- and if they didn't make it --- they went back home. You forget that a third of the European immigrants returned home in a short time --- and that was during the Industrial Revolution when there were all kinds of low-skilled jobs that would raise someone up to middle class status.

Immigration levels should be tied in with combined welfare rates and unemployment rates. If 10% of the population in a region is receiving food stamps, then no immigrants are needed.

[FITZ]

• Any atempt at mass deportation will invoke riots (fires/lootings/shootings/etc) in cities across the country.

Mass deportations don't have to happen if the illegals are left illegals. Often they chose to come here illegally because they intend to work a while and return home ---- returning home should be our goal for them --- and they're more likely to go back home if left illegal. Just because someone decides to ignore the laws here doesn't mean they have to be made legal.

[hosepipe]

WHAT!..
We have a problem with illegal aliens so MAKE THEM NOT ILLEGAL ANYMORE....DuuuH!... almost hilarious except for the reality of it...

JEEESE... was this dude trained by AL GORE!?...man..
Just subtracted a few points from George Bushs column...

[The Shootist]

I have seen reports that indicate that about 30% of Mexican/South Americans return home also. And no I didn't forget.

Welfare continues to work its pernicious evil (thank you Mr. Bush). However I see no indication that its existance has completly halted the poor man's rise from poverty.

Welfare should not exist but since it does it should only exist for citizens. Both, I fear are pipe dreams. Welfare, in all its myriad forms, is here to stay for whoever makes it across the border.

[FITZ]

I'm not for mass deportations. I see no reason for agents to drag workers out of the fields, off tractors, or cleaning ladies and nannies out of the homes they're working in ---- but many of these people will soon return home --- or eventually will --- so giving amnesty doesn't accomplish much but encourage them to stay.

Just leave them illegal --- then if they do cause problems they can be easily deported. Amnesty doesn't gain much for us.

[UCANSEE2]

Nice ad hominem warm-up.

Thanks, I worked on that.

To Amnesty the Illegals is to ignore the problem.

I disagree. It may not be your way of dealing with the problem, but it certainly is not ignoring the problem. Ignoring means taking no action. I know you know this.

To fail to enforce the law is to ignore the problem.

I completely agree. Past administrations have done just that. Which is why I see Ridge's remark as this administration considering what should be done, instead of just ignoring it.

Ignoring the problem is part of the problem.

Where do you get this? Considering options to deal with a problem is not ignoring it. Why, if you think all illegals should immediately be deported, did you not 'advise' all past administrations that they should immediately do so? Were you just ignoring the problem?

The "spirit of the American People" has not traditionally been to allow foreigners to invade and scoff at our sovereignty, thereby eroding the rule of law.

The spirit has been that America is an open border country, with an outstretched hand (statue of liberty) to the refugees from other countries. Give us your tired, your poor, etc.

ALL of THESE 'illegal' immigrants are HUMAN BEINGS who want the promise of America kept.

Many of these 'illegal' immigrants place the value of their future life above the risk of the illegal part and the risk of getting past border security (which for many means risking death).

We could devise a system where punishment for illegal immigration means a longer delay in becoming naturalized. If we do, we could get them to come forward, and register, which helps solves many problems. Surely we can find a way to get these people registered, and eventually naturalized, or are you saying that this country is so greedy and selfish, we must keep it all to ourselves?

If you do, you must tell me, just who are the real Americans who deserve to keep this whole country to themselves.

Many people in this country are immigrants. Many are legal immigrants, but there are just as many whose parents were illegals (and I don't mean just the Mexican imms.) and the children born are legal citizens, of course. And that is the reason the parents came in illegally. To have a child born as a US citizen.

Do we deport them too? The parents and the children?

How about, if we want to get selfish and greedy, that only the TRUE AMERICANS be allowed to stay? And who will define that?

The problem of illegal imms is a large problem, and must be dealt with.

Trying to deport them all will be a costly and stupid mistake. In case you are 'ignoring' this, we DEPORT them all the time. Know what happens? They just sneak back in.

You and others may not like Ridge's suggestion (and it is only that, so far), but it is a workable solution, whereas your solution has a track record of failure.

[xJones]

"I'm not saying make them citizens, because they violated the law to get here," he said. "So you don't reward that type of conduct by turning over a citizenship certificate [bur you do when the illegal women have babies on welfare here by the thousands]
You determine how you can legalize their presence, [WHY?] then, as a country, you make a decision that from this day forward, from this day forward, this is the process of entry, and if you violate that process of entry we have the resources to cope with it."

What a crock! We're overrun with illegals, millions of them and the Democrats are registering them as voters, ASAP. And El Republicante Presidente del Crawford doesn't say a thing about it.

By God, Sir, we'll defend America with Homeland Defense! (Any Muslim terrorist with half a donated brain could come in as an illegal Mexican and his wife could collect food stamps while he put together a suitcase bomb.)

We don't care, it's not our country anymore, we're worried about Iraq and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, we're all learning to speak Spanish at home, but we're defending America overseas from invasion....or something like that.

[dalereed]

"Trying to deport them all will be a costly and stupid mistake. In case you are 'ignoring' this, we DEPORT them all the time. Know what happens? They just sneak back in"

If they try to sneak back in, KILL THEM!

[Barnacle]

Libertarian?

[Sabertooth]

The worst bill is the 500,000 Amnesty - and Tancredo says he has enough votes to block it in the House Committees.

Got a bill # on that?

The worst bill to my eye is Texas Senator John Cornyn's Amnesty, which would legalize millions of Illegals, including hundreds of thousands who aren't even here yet.

You are right on one point though - if Bush and Rove could pass a big amnesty bill they would do it - but so far it looks like they don't have enough votes to get anything significant past the neccessary House Committees.

Hatch's S 1545, the so-called "Dream Act" which Amnesties Illegal Alien students and requires states to give them in-state college tuition, is already out of committee. Passed 16 to 3.

[Pubbie]

"Hatch's S 1545, the so-called "Dream Act" which Amnesties Illegal Alien students and requires states to give them in-state college tuition, is already out of committee. Passed 16 to 3."

Yeah but it has to get throught the House Next - and the House is a whole different breed of cat.

[baxter999]

Lots of garbage in your posts here. It's quite easy to deport and quite cheap. If Ridge and Bush were really serious about Homeland Security they would already have clamped down on the borders. If we clamped down on the borders the illegals deported wouldn't get back in. And if you think all that is coming across from Mexico in those lines of NAFTA trucks is Mexicans yearning to be free, I've got a bridge I'd love to sell you.

Just curious, would this amnesty include the thousands of unaccounted for Islamists from terrorist countries who are here? I guess we should just give them all green cards since it would be too costly to deport them.

[StarFan]

Please send a fax (which is free).

[Sabertooth]

I disagree. It may not be your way of dealing with the problem, but it certainly is not ignoring the problem. Ignoring means taking no action. I know you know this.

You've incorrectly defined the problem, which is that our politicians refuse to enforce our laws against Illegal Aliens.

Why, if you think all illegals should immediately be deported, did you not 'advise' all past administrations that they should immediately do so? Were you just ignoring the problem?

Cutting through the fluff, you either didn't read the solution I offered to your question, or you just didn't want to address it...

Now, One thing I have learned is that if you don't agree with someone's solution to a problem, then LET's HEAR YOUR SOLUTION.

Sure: They Will Deport Themselves

The spirit has been that America is an open border country, with an outstretched hand (statue of liberty) to the refugees from other countries. Give us your tired, your poor, etc.

Simply not true. The Statue of Liberty didn't even exist for more than 100 years after our founding, and you may recall that legal immigrants had to be processed through Ellis Island.

We have never had "open borders" in the sense you're proposing.

ALL of THESE 'illegal' immigrants are HUMAN BEINGS who want the promise of America kept.

I want that too.

America's promise to Illegals is that the law will be enforced against them.

Many of these 'illegal' immigrants place the value of their future life above the risk of the illegal part and the risk of getting past border security (which for many means risking death).

Understand something. If they are Illegals, they are not immigrants.

Lots of criminals risk their lives. I'm unimpressed.

We could devise a system where punishment for illegal immigration means a longer delay in becoming naturalized. If we do, we could get them to come forward, and register, which helps solves many problems.

It solves nothing, More Amnesties means more Illegals. This is the inescapable lesson of every previous Amnesty.

Surely we can find a way to get these people registered, and eventually naturalized, or are you saying that this country is so greedy and selfish, we must keep it all to ourselves?

Straw men and emotional sophistry aside, I'm for having a generous immigration policy. Here's how it works.

Immigration candidates apply from their home countries, and wait for us to accept them. If we do, and if they have family, they may bring their immediate family (spouses and children) here after a waiting period. All family members who are accepted this way count against our immigration caps.

As for Illegals, they are not immigrants, they are tresspassers.

If you do, you must tell me, just who are the real Americans who deserve to keep this whole country to themselves.

Real Americans are citizens, whether by birth or naturalization.

Yeah, it's our country, as much as you may not like it.

Many people in this country are immigrants. Many are legal immigrants,

People are immigrants only if they are legal.

but there are just as many whose parents were illegals (and I don't mean just the Mexican imms.) and the children born are legal citizens, of course. And that is the reason the parents came in illegally. To have a child born as a US citizen.

Do we deport them too? The parents and the children?

Deport the parents, but let them make their own decisions about their children. They may certainly take them with them, or they may put them up for adoption.

In the meantime, we need a Constitutional Amendment against would-be anchor babies.

How about, if we want to get selfish and greedy, that only the TRUE AMERICANS be allowed to stay? And who will define that?

We define it by the rule of law. There are Citizens, legal residents, and guestworkers.

All are here legally. They get to stay.

Illegals aren't here legally, so they need to go home.

Trying to deport them all will be a costly and stupid mistake. In case you are 'ignoring' this, we DEPORT them all the time. Know what happens? They just sneak back in.

First of all, go read the link I've posted now to you twice.

Second, over 90% of the Illegal Alien apprehensions take place within three days of crossing the border, There is no substantial risk of deportation of Illegals from the American Interior. They continue to come becaue the risk is so low.

We need to increase the risk to Illegals, and discourage them from entering the country at all.

You and others may not like Ridge's suggestion (and it is only that, so far), but it is a workable solution, whereas your solution has a track record of failure.

No, deportation works. It worked quite well under Eisenhower.

Amnesty fails every single time. The only aspects of it that are workable are the encouragement future Illegals receive and the ability of politicians to escape accountability for their malfeasance.

[rmlew]

Are you calling eisenhower Hitler?
Look up "Operation Wetback"

[dts32041]

You can't do this this activity has been declared illegal and verbotten by the the SS Court of the united states.

[Consort]

Legalization doesn't make them middle class or educated.

True....but it opens up the possibility and maybe they won't have to survive selling drugs to our kids...and maybe not.