Ohio: Black kids still struggle

Jack Ryan, A Republican candidate running for US Senate in Illinois, quit his millionare job to become a teacher in an all black, private school. Every single one of his students went on to college. Do you think there might be a difference in the quality of teaching between unionized liberal labor teachers of public schools and individual conservatives in private schools who actually care about their students?

If you think that Mr. Millionaire Politician was treated the same as another white with no money or political connections would have been, I want some of whatever it is you're smoking. I'd also like to see a comparison to the other teachers' kids -- I'll bet they all went on to college, too. Because that's the way it is in black private schools. The kids are highly motivated, being that their parents (who are sometimes just scraping by) are militantly motivated to help, no, MAKE them succeed. Mr. Millionaire Politician's students went on to college because of their parents, not because of him.

Having taught side by side with future politician types, I've observed that they are uniformly into impression management ("I'm a dedicated educator; I'm a role model."), as opposed to actually teaching, which is exhausting work and leaves no time for politicking. I recall that "historian" Newt Gingrich was also allegedly an educator, and very popular with his students, too (the dead giveaway that he was a soft grader who demanded little work).

So, hopefully, you'll pardon me if I am not at all impressed with your example.

P.S. Being a conservative does not necessarily entail that you will care about your kids, and I worked with some extreme lefties who were very dedicated to their kids. Don't be such a political hack. Kids need teachers, not politicians in the classroom.

(1)Mr. Millionaire Politician's students went on to college because of their parents, not because of him.
(2)Kids need teachers, not politicians in the classroom.

I was implying that private schools are better than public schools. You obviously disagree. Your comment is lame and makes no sense and you even contradict yourself. With the first remark, you say that it only takes good parenting for kids to be succesful in school. In the second remark, you say kids need teachers. Which is it? It sounds more like you've had a bad experience with a conservative educator or you or a relative are a public school teacher yourself and this is your opportunity to take a cheap shot.

Hales Fransican High School (where Jack Ryan taught) has sent 100% of it's students to college since 1996. Yes, parenting has a lot to do with it. But it also occurs because Hales Franciscan attracts some of the best teachers around who are passionate about what they teach. I went to a public school. The teachers were extremely lazy and/or boring, except for one.

A man can walk into a classroom with absolutley zero knowledge on the subject and teach from the book with superb results if he can teach with enthusiasm. A proffesional on the subject can walk into a classroom talking monotone like Ben Stein and leave the kids in total shock. This is why Bush wanted school vouchers. You are wrong in your remarks on conservative teachers and the statistics prove it.

The fault lies with the teachers and parents. They allow the students to fail by not teaching them the material necessary to pass the examination - i.e., teaching the material on the ninth grade curriculum.

Don't let the flowery language dress this up. If all you expect is mediocre performance, that's all you are going to get - both from students and teachers.

Hi Michael,
As the husband of a fourth grade teacher in an inner city school, (40% Hispanic, 40% black, 10% white/other), I have heard a little from the teacher's side about this controversy.

Let's start out by making a distinction between teachers and the educational establishment in the state of Ohio. Did you know that Ohio schools, through the state funding formula, have thirteen years between grade one and grade twelve to get ANY student through the system? If they fail that, the funding for that school district is adversely affected. My wife has recommended that students be held back, (it doesn't matter what color), only to be told that they will be promoted because they have already been held back previously. The color that matters here is the green dollars that the school district will not see IF they insist that this child be EDUCATED NOT PROCESSED.It is the bureaucrats interested in the funding that push these kids through the system. Besides, what would you do with them when they are all in fourth grade or below because they can't get into the next grade.

My wife has students that come to class tired because their parents let them stay up until midnight, or they are forced to stay up until midnight because they sleep on the couch in the living room, and the adults don't want to turn off the television.

She has students who don't have the basic tools to come to school, (notebook, paper, pens, pencils), but their parents drive a Lexus or Cadillac.

I am sure that you are familiar with the term Tabula Rasa. We are all born with a blank slate for a mind. Many of the children she has in fourth showed up in kindergarten tabula rasa because as children NO ONE ever read to them, played with them, ever talked to them when they were younger. They don't talk to them now, let alone check their homework, or help them with their homework.

My wife says these kids want to talk to an adult about ANYTHING because no one talks to them about anything at home. They are starved for attention and information, but their own parents ignore them, and feel that it is the schools obligation to fill their heads with everything that they will need to allow them to survive as adults. (This is my comment: It's almost like a crocodile after the eggs hatch. The progeny are basically on their own after a very short period of time).

Where is the mother or father kicking a students ass and telling them to straighten up and fly right? "Do you want to live on 77th Street all of your life, where you are, working two jobs, with no money to spend?" I can hear my mother to this day, and she has been dead 18 years. Gov't assistance was not an option for my family with five kids back then, and wouldn't be an option now. She would have rather starved.

I lay this one directly on the parents, for their lack of standards, their lack of discipline, their disinterest in the system and Not wanting to make it work for their children.

My wife works 15 hours a day teaching, putting together lesson plans, making sure that her lesson plans coincide and are consistant with the state standards, working with IEPs and yes, even trying to make her lessons interesting and once in a while a fun activity.

The next time you want to blame the teachers I want you to come and say it in front of my wife. It would be fun to watch this 54 y/o white woman kick your butt up one side of the street and down the other while she is educating you about politicians, the pointy headed a$$holes, (my word), on the state school board, the proficiency exams, politicians, No Child Left Behind, immigration reform, politicians....etc.

In God We Trust.....Semper Fi

(1)Mr. Millionaire Politician's students went on to college because of their parents, not because of him.
(2)Kids need teachers, not politicians in the classroom.

I was implying that private schools are better than public schools. You obviously disagree.

I'd like to see where I said that.

Your comment is lame and makes no sense and you even contradict yourself. With the first remark, you say that it only takes good parenting for kids to be succesful in school. In the second remark, you say kids need teachers. Which is it?

In the case of those particular kids, their parents were so motivated, that the quality of their teachers probably wouldn't matter, as far as their making it to college. In the case of borderline kids with borderline parents, teacher quality would be a major factor.

It sounds more like you've had a bad experience with a conservative educator or you or a relative are a public school teacher yourself and this is your opportunity to take a cheap shot.

Wrong and wrong. But then, no honest, comtetent reader could find me taking a shot anywhere in my post against conservative educators.

A man can walk into a classroom with absolutley zero knowledge on the subject and teach from the book with superb results if he can teach with enthusiasm.

Balo-o-ney! One of the main problems with the public schools, is that they have people teaching fields about which they know nothing. Enthusiasm without knowledge=b.s.

A proffesional on the subject can walk into a classroom talking monotone like Ben Stein and leave the kids in total shock. This is why Bush wanted school vouchers. You are wrong in your remarks on conservative teachers and the statistics prove it.

For a Republican hack, you'd be amazed at how similar your style of b.s. is to that of the communists: 1. You fervently believe that all one need be is a true believer in the "correct" political ideology, and pedagogical success will automatically follow; 2. You make up claims about fictional "statistics"; 3. You make false connections between unrelateed things ('vouchers=desire for teachers with no knowledge of the fields they are to teach'); and 4. You put ridiculous statements into the mouths of those who disagree with you, in order to try and make them appear even dumber than you are!

I was implying that private schools are better than public schools. You obviously disagree.

I'd like to see where I said that.

In your post you explained that teachers don't matter whatsoever if kids have good parents just by the 2 choice comments of yours I pasted into my post. By that notion, why have teachers? You either lack common sense or refuse to accept the truth that teaching styles make a difference. Two of the most reoccurring comments from parents who have moved their kids from a public school to a private school is the increased eagerness to learn. This has been associated with how the teachers challenge the students and the higher level of discipline.

In the case of those particular kids, their parents were so motivated, that the quality of their teachers probably wouldn't matter, as far as their making it to college.

Parents can be as motivated as they want but it takes motivation of the student to get results. The parents aren't the ones required to pay attention in class. As I stated above, parents find that their child's motivation to learn increases when going from public school to private school which only shows that the atmosphere a child is in, does make a difference.

no honest, comtetent reader could find me taking a shot anywhere in my post against conservative educators.

The repetitive impertinent name calling was enough.

One of the main problems with the public schools, is that they have people teaching fields about which they know nothing. Enthusiasm without knowledge=b.s.

The knowledge a teacher possesses is irrelevant if he can't pass it on to the students. This requires the attention of the students which is more likely found with enthusiastic teachers. A BSU study has shown that two major factors of teacher style made the top 5 on the list that most benefits student achievement. Clarity was number one and enthusiasm was number 5. Parenting didn't make it on the list.

For a Republican hack, you'd be amazed at how similar your style of b.s. is to that of the communists:

So now I'm a communist? Why? Because I disagree with your statement that parenting is the sole necessity for a kid to get grades high enough to go on to college? That's a lame and radical comparison.

1. You fervently believe that all one need be is a true believer in the "correct" political ideology, and pedagogical success will automatically follow;

Show me where I said that.

You make up claims about fictional "statistics";

Links provided below.

You make false connections between unrelated things ('vouchers=desire for teachers with no knowledge of the fields they are to teach');

Vouchers give parents the opportunity to shop around for a better education for their children. Why would this be necessary if all it takes is good parenting? My parents were always involved with my schoolwork yet I lacked the grades for college preparation. Many parents do their best for their kids but it just isn't enough. Face the truth. Some teachers just plain suck at teaching. Teacher quality is necessary for student achievement.

You put ridiculous statements into the mouths of those who disagree with you, in order to try and make them appear even dumber than you are!

I pasted your statements. Your post still exists. Have a look at these links for statistics/studies/examples so you can better understand why parents aren't the only quality needed for precollege student achievement.
CAPE
Buckeye Institute
Harvard

Three factors must be admitted before any rational conversation about this situation can begin.

First:
The approach to the situation is faulty. Instead of wondering why a percentage of black kids does poorly in school, why not wonder why a certain percentage does well.
We study failure. We should study success.
Its like studying the activites of a salesman who isn't making quota, rather than those of one who is.
We have a lot of sociological knowledge of failure but little of success.

Second, An unfortunate truth must be faced:
Despite, the title of President Bush's education initiative, some children will be left behind. Some will not pass achievement tests, some will be unhealthier than others, and some will never do anything other than menial work.

Third:
It is unfortunate that for historical reasons, the children most likely to be in category #2 are black children, for no reason other than it is undesirable for those grouped at the bottom of society to be of one race or ethnic group.
However unfortunate the facts may be, those at the bottom will be very, very, very resistant to efforts at amelioration by society.
All the AA programs in the world will do little for these poor black children.
Neither will pouring vast sums of money into remedial edu-
cation.
Those that can be helped, will be helped or, more accurately, will help themselves.

Without admitting these facts, we are doomed to continue the same futile policies we have followed since Lyndon Johnson proclaimed the ill-fated and ill-concieved War on Powerty.

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