Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

[Ispy4u]

I am currently a reservist. Active duty from 1990-2000 then into the reserves, back on active from 10/2001-11/2003. I will be going to Iraq next spring or summer.

I am a 96B, I was 11B for 6/10 while active. I can't tell you what my current capacity is but I do not sit in an office when I depoy.

[milan]

Maybe we could just drive through Baghdad and shoot everything that moves, hey, it's a battlefield right?

Yeah, that's exactly what we are saying. Now go get your baba and take a nap.

[Ispy4u]

Our service has nothing to do with "raising up in the eyes of the world" but we are duty bound to not bring shame and discredit on our nation.

[Broadside Joe]

Yeah I guess you're right, that may be even worse for moral once the word got out. Silly me...

[milan]

I hope to God that your commander is willing to beat the crap out of a terrorist conspirator, so that you aren't the recipient of a bullet that could have been stopped.

Me and my family are indepted to you. Good luck in Iraq, be safe, and please come back. I still disagree with you and I hope your CO does also.

[Ispy4u]

Failure of command

Read this one.

[milan]

If we hang LTC west, the terrorists are watching TV saying "look, we can kill their civilians and they have to treat us like civilians...lets keep fighting!"

[Ispy4u]

I sure would hate to have to report the man that "saved my life". But I would.

Thanks for your wishes and I hate to sound like Ahnold, but I will be back.

[Ispy4u]

Some will, but they will be killed or captured.

But LTC West will get his retirement, he won't be hanged, and he and his lawyer didn't need to go to the media.

His dishonorable actions were small in my eyes when he fired his sidearm, but they have grown immense because of his efforts to save his retirement. If he quietly declined the offer to leave service and faced court martial he would have been dealt with fairly, he didn't trust the system and he has used the media to rally support, dishonorable is the only word I can think of for it.

[Just another Joe]

The article that link points to agrees with my point of view MUCH more so than yours.

Read my posts again.
The punishment doesn't fit the situation, I can't call it a crime.

BTW, that article doesn't have any information about the article 32 other than to say that LTC West is awaiting the outcome.
If you don't have any hard information why are you pretending you do?

[PBRSTREETGANG]

No, he was offered to leave without retirement, but he chose court martial, so it's his choice.

Some offer. He made the right choice, but never should've been put in that position.

Yes 20 years does not mean 19.999. Never has never will.

Can't argue with your math skills there. Which is why I believe he should've been disciplined and allowed to serve out the additional .001 without being forced to "choose" a court martial in order to protect the 19.999 years of service he gave to this country.

[cookcounty]

" Regardless of what you think, he saved American lives. Who knows how many."

If you know what you claim to know, you should at least be able to give us a rough estimate.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Jay Bookman, why don't you ask the widow Spann what she thinks of West's tactics.

[Ispy4u]

so he took a few of his men to the interrogation area to see for himself, where he found the prisoner being questioned by two female officers. They told him the man was belligerent, and wasn't giving them any information. (Surprise, surprise. The idiocy of having women question male Arab prisoners is apparent to everyone except the army commanders.) West entered the room, sat across from the man, drew his pistol, and placed it in his lap. West told him he had come to either get information, or to kill him. The prisoner responded by smiling and saying, "I love you." The interrogation continued, and one of West's troops lost his temper and started slapping the man. West then had his men take the prisoner outside, where he again threatened the man, telling him that he would kill him on the count of five if he didn't tell what he knew. The prisoner refused, and West fired his pistol into the air.

This information is from the Art. 32 hearing. You said he wasn't in the room the facts are that he was.

[cookcounty]

I'm not supporting LTC West in this, but I am a bit suspicious of the Atlanta J&C.

Isn't Cynthia Tucker the editor there? The Cynthia Tucker who hates with deep passion all African-Americans that disagree with herself? Maybe she fears a budding African-American politician who might not follow Plantation rules.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

I might very well have done what West did, but just as I break other laws on occasion, I know that there is a penalty for doing so. I didn't make the rules, but I was well aware of what they were.

Do you believe that each officer should do as he pleases, regardless of the UCMJ?

BTW you did not answer what the rules were that you were taught. If you're going to give us that "Army went PC" crap, tell us what rules you operated under. As for you being glad I got out, my Battalion commander had my wife and me to his home for dinner trying to get me to stay but I'm sure you are smarter than LTC Crandall was.

[Ispy4u]

Since his alleged crime occured prior to 20 and the plea bargain was made prior to 20 then if he wanted to keep his retirement his only choice was court martial.

Them's the breaks, no difference in my eyes between dishonorable service at 19.999 and dishonorable service at 18 should we wait 2 years for their retirement before plea bargain? 18 years is a lot of honorable service too.

That's one of the hard lessons of the military, when disciplin is done correctly, it's by god tough!

[Ispy4u]

The AJC is probably as bad as the LA Times, but I still agree with the jist of the editorial.

[OldCorps]

well, as a former 11b, you probably know what its like to be dirty, cold, exhausted and hungry. West, as an artillery officer, has being doing that for 20 years (putting up with privation) at low pay.

Everyone has an opinion. I respect yours, but i strongly disagree with you. You think its ok to court martial an officer who has served honorably for 19.9 years and take his pension for only discharging a sidearm to intimidate an enemy spy (the man was not in uniform and thus not protected by the Genveva convention as a combatant).

i could not disagree with you more. Punishment should be appropriate to the offense. In this case, the punishment should have been an a$$ chewing.

I've served in the 4th ID, the 8th ID and the 5th ID and i've commanded an infantry rifle company and a division HQ company. I know that the best leaders that i served under would have only given West a verbal reprimand and gone about the mission.

Regards,

[Just another Joe]

You said he wasn't in the room the facts are that he was.

No, I asked the question. I even put in writing a disclaimer.
And once again, "roughing up", or even, "and one of West's troops lost his temper and started slapping the man.", is now a life threatening beating?

The person was also examined by a doctor and the doctor found no evidence that the person was physically harmed in any lasting way.

His commanding officer didn't find anything wrong with the techniques. It was in a "rambling letter" that mentioned, in passing, something about what LTC West did that the PC lawyers decided they knew better than his commanding officer and his own staff.