Posted on 12/09/2003 4:16:55 AM PST by Ispy4u
I sincerely doubt that "Thousands of LTCs across Iraq" are faced with a time sensitive situation regarding an ambush on thier men the way LTC West was.
"Thousands of LTCs across Iraq" may have detainees that they believe to have information but I sincerely doubt the information 99.99% of the detainees have is time sensitive information of this nature.
they adjust the operations to mitigate the percieved risk and take actions to counter enemy operations.
And if we "adjust the operations to mitigate the perceived risk" enough we can give Iraq back to the forces of evil, namely Sadham and his men. We can just pull out and we won't lose one more person in Iraq. Is this the type of thing you would rather see?
Beating prisoners, mock executions, and torture haven't won our enemies any wars
Now you add in torture? Did LTC West beat the person? Did LTC West order his men to beat the person? Did LTC West see his men beating the person? Can you answer any of these questions with 100% accuracy?
Or did LTC West possibly save this person's life by pulling him out of a beating and firing a couple of shots?
I'm not saying this was the way it was, I'm just pointing out that unless you were there the only thing we can do is voice an opinion.
This WAS a battlefield operation, there WAS an ambush planned, the person that had these things done to him DID have information that allowed LTC West to avoid that ambush. Those are the pertinenet facts as I see them.
LTC West's actions may have not been entirely correct but, IMO, they were needed and the attention they have received is far out of keeping with the harm they caused.
Pull a rank, take pay, restriction, etc, but to CASHIER the man without his pension after serving his country for as long as he did? LTC West doesn't deserve that, IMHO.
But denial of his retirement is OK with you since "20 years does not mean 19.999"?
If you are ever in a firefight, we will arrange to put that on your tombstone. Me?
I prefer the words from a real warrior: You are not here to die for your country! You are here to see that the other sumabitch dies for his country! (or ideology or religion or whatever.)
General MacArthur's Thayer Award Speech -- Duty, Honor, Country (1962)
No human being could fail to be deeply moved by such a tribute as this [Thayer Award]. Coming from a profession I have served so long and a people I have loved so well, it fills me with an emotion I cannot express. But this award is not intended primarily to honor a personality, but to symbolize a great moral code-a code of conduct and chivalry of those who guard this beloved land of culture and ancient descent. For all hours and for all time, it is an expression of the ethics of the American soldier. That I should be integrated in this way with so noble an ideal arouses a sense of pride, and yet of humility, which will be with me always.
Duty, honor, country: Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying point to build courage when courage seems to fail, to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith, to create hope when hope becomes forlorn. ....
I don't buy it and I'm pointing it out to others so they can reach their own opinion.
If you have anything from the article 32 that is pertinent to anything I've said then post it in a reply. Then maybe I'll give it some thought.
BTW, the leanings, if not outright bias, of this author should tell you something.
That statement proved to me that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You sound like a democrat; "prove that going to Iraq was necessary."
LTC West uncovered a plan to attack Americans. He got the info by firing his pistol past the head of a conspirator. The conspirator should be happy that LTC West was interogating him. I would have shot him in the ass.
Pardon me for not reading the entire thread. You write as though you are on active duty in the service. Is that the case? If so, in what capacity?
So "roughing up" is now a life threatening "beating"?
I won't say it was right to stand by and do nothing. The punishment, even the one offered, is not in keeping with the mistake made.
As far as the rest, if you didn't know this well publicised statement, how much more time do I need to waste rehashing something you can go read for yourself.
Supply a link.
Errrrr, given those two options, I'd take the court martial, thank you.;-)
Nail on the head.
I think reasonable men will understand his action.
Conversely, if we take your point of view, we will be raised up in the eyes of the world if we condemn the action of this man? Please don't tell me that this is what you believe. That would one of the most naive points of view I have ever read.
Thanks for serving. Let me ask you; if you were certain that you could beat some info out of an enemy and it would same some of your troops lives, would you? If you say no, then I am glad your service came to a close.
This is so funny. You can kill them if they point a gun at you, but you must play nice if they drop the gun. They are still the enemy.
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