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The meeting was to have taken place later after the President's scheduled return. Whether that technically would have been "morning", ie., before 1200hrs is not clear, but could perhaps be clarified and is anyway not the main point at all (but a welcomed sudden expression of interest in facts, much of which could,per below, are contained in the article).

This explanation doesn't cut it for me. Bush was originally scheduled to make some remarks and take some questions afterwards, starting at 9:30 after reading to the kids, and was to leave Florida that afternoon via Marine One.

Yet according to Sami Al-Arian, the meeting with Bush was to occur in the White House at 11:00 AM. The timeline doesn't fit.

The FL school trip was NOT almost over at 9 am when the towers' news arrived. He was supposed to give some remarks and take some questions, and that wasn't even scheduled to begin until 9:30.

Even if the press accounts which stated that he was originally supposed to leave Florida in the afternoon were not correct, there simply would not have been enough time for him to start a short speech at 9:30, entertain 20 minutes or so of questions, then take a motorcade to the air force base to get on Marine One, and fly back to the White House in time for an 11:00 meeting.

And since the White House was locked down some time earlier than it was evacuated, and it was evacuated at 9:45, they would have needed to have been very early for such a meeting to be there prior to the lockdown. I suppose that is possible, but it seems to me to be unlikely.

And if Al-Arian's statement that the meeting was to take place at 11:00 is incorrect, and the news report that said Bush was originally scheduled to leave Florida that afternoon were correct, then they would have had to have been at the White House really early.

And since it was clear that there were terrorist attacks occurring, it would also have been clear that their meeting was not going to happen long before the White House was evacuated out of fear of a fourth plane heading that way. So the idea that they were sitting, waiting for an imminent meeting when they were escorted back to Norquists' conference room due to the fourth plane also strikes me as unlikely.

In other words, instead of this explanation making me more credulous, it makes me less.

Which leads me to the same place this thread has led me. I am troubled by some of the things regarding Norquist which appear to me to be undeniable, such as why he was pushing for the election (as a Republican) of someone who fits in well with Stalinist groups like the IAC. But I am also skeptical of some of the information presented as evidence of his perfidy.

This explanation doesn't cut it for me.
< -snip- >

In other words, instead of this explanation making me more credulous, it makes me less.

Fair enough; it's a good point. That's why I sent the e-mail to Gaffney.

The problem Norquist has, I think, is that even if not everything Gaffney's written were to bear out, there is too much there for that alone to exonerate Grover.
Particularly unconvincing are Norquist's lies and race-baiting in response to this story.

see brackets:

[[The meeting was to have taken place later after the President's scheduled return. Whether that technically would have been "morning", ie., before 1200hrs is not clear, but could perhaps be clarified and is anyway not the main point at all (but a welcomed sudden expression of interest in facts, much of which could,per below, are contained in the article). ]]

"This explanation doesn't cut it for me. Bush was originally scheduled to make some remarks and take some questions afterwards, starting at 9:30 after reading to the kids, and was to leave Florida that afternoon via Marine One. Yet according to Sami Al-Arian, the meeting with Bush was to occur in the White House at 11:00 AM. The timeline doesn't fit. ""

[[Read the whole thing first.]]

[[ Point is the meeting was scheduled and the Muslim groups new about it and it was moved to Grover's by the the White House contact, who was present. I don' think anyone is espcially making a stand on hwat specific time of the morning or day; that's not this issue. Also, As I said, people are often told the President will drop by and then he may or may ot. it's a prestige and motivating thing. We did it all the time in the 80s and it happens in politics all the time ("the President could't be here with us today as orignally planned but he sent this letter, tape, offcial, etc....." )]]

"The FL school trip was NOT almost over at 9 am when the towers' news arrived. He was supposed to give some remarks and take some questions, and that wasn't even scheduled to begin until 9:30."

"Even if the press accounts which stated that he was originally supposed to leave Florida in the afternoon were not correct, there simply would not have been enough time for him to start a short speech at 9:30, entertain 20 minutes or so of questions, then take a motorcade to the air force base to get on Marine One, and fly back to the White House in time for an 11:00 meeting."

"And since the White House was locked down some time earlier than it was evacuated, and it was evacuated at 9:45, they would have needed to have been very early for such a meeting to be there prior to the lockdown.

[[ obviously no one knew about the lockdown until it happened! everything scheduled, normal business went on as usual until it was disrupted. time logic fault here! that's when they walked 5 blocks to Grover's and held the meeting. ]]

"I suppose that is possible, but it seems to me to be unlikely."

"And if Al-Arian's statement that the meeting was to take place at 11:00 is incorrect, and the news report that said Bush was originally scheduled to leave Florida that afternoon were correct, then they would have had to have been at the White House really early.

[[ again he said "morning" and "day" in the implied context of recalling "that terrible morning when...." I don't think time coordinates are meant therein to be specfic v poetic.]]

"And since it was clear that there were terrorist attacks occurring, it would also have been clear that their meeting was not going to happen long before the White House was evacuated out of fear of a fourth plane heading that way. So the idea that they were sitting, waiting for an imminent meeting when they were escorted back to Norquists' conference room due to the fourth plane also strikes me as unlikely."

[[I don't know the details of their preparing or waiting, except to say that if you are waiting in the OEOB for a mtg, you have no TV and will not know until you are told you have to evacuate, again, time logis here!. What I do know is that they regrouped, with WH staffer Suhail Kahn at helm, and held the meeting in Gover and Gaffney's conference room. End of story.

The point about the whole anecdote, which they all admit happened, is that the meeting was to dicuss, President or no-show, the elimination of "secret evidence' -- an agenda item blown apart by 9/11 but absent 9/11 was still on track to be given to them per the Presdient's Grover-arranged pledge! Had this polic change gone forward we would have been even further contrained from finding terrorist planning such attacks or arresting Sami Al Arian. THAT is the point, not what time who left where to get on with it!]]

"In other words, instead of this explanation making me more credulous, it makes me less. Which leads me to the same place this thread has led me. I am troubled by some of the things regarding Norquist which appear to me to be undeniable, such as why he was pushing for the election (as a Republican) of someone who fits in well with Stalinist groups like the IAC. But I am also skeptical of some of the information presented as evidence of his perfidy.

[[ Well half-troubled is a good start! Ohter's defens NAwash above and excuse Grover's involvement. Next?]]

Here's what Al-Arian is quoted as saying:

"Sept. 11 I was actually on this campus (the civics center). It was 8 o'clock in the morning, and I was extremely upbeat," Al-Arian said. "I was supposed to have an 11 o'clock conference call from a group in Washington D.C. that they were supposed to meet with President Bush."

The topic of discussion, Al-Arian said, was to ensure the benefits of the Immigration and Nationalization Act stood firm. Al-Arian said eight Muslim leaders were meeting with Bush to discuss a bill passed in 2001 that states no alien be denied a benefit under the act based on evidence that is kept secret from the alien.

"For the past four years I was fighting very hard for the outlaw of secret evidence," Al-Arian said. "At 3:30 the president would have announced the end of secret evidence."

Sounds like what was supposed to take place at 11 A.M. on 9/11 was Al-Arian's conference call with the Islamists who were to meet Bush. Since Al-Arian give 3:30 (P.M., I assume) as the time when they were supposed to have the president's assurance, their meeting with Bush was apparently scheduled for the afternoon.

Yet according to Sami Al-Arian, the meeting with Bush was to occur in the White House at 11:00 AM. The timeline doesn't fit.

Ari Fleischer gave a press briefing on September 7, in which, among other things, he detailed the President's schedule for that week. Notice what's supposed to be happening on Tuesday:

Q Ari, can you tell us about -- preview education week for us?
MR. FLEISCHER: Yes, let me get you the week ahead. I promise not to use the words "OMB" or "CBO" on the entire week ahead.
The President will launch an initiative beginning tonight and it will continue into next week that is a reminder of the importance of reading throughout America. He and Mrs. Bush will give a series of remarks and will also, in the case of the President, remind the Congress of the importance of sending the education package to the White House so that we can improve our public schools.
Specifically -- and now let me give you the entire events for the week -- the President on Sunday will participate in a coin toss to kick off the NFL season. That will take place in the Rose Garden on Sunday afternoon.
On Monday, the President will go to the Navy Yard with the Prime Minister of Australia for an event and he'll have a working lunch and a meeting with the Prime Minister in the White House. In the afternoon on Monday, the President will continue his focus on reading and education when he travels to Jacksonville, Florida, and then on to Sarasota, Florida.
He'll return to the White House on Tuesday afternoon, where he will host, in the evening, the Congressional Barbecue on the South Lawn. Also on Tuesday, Mrs. Bush will make remarks on early child cognitive development to Senator Kennedy's committee.
On Thursday, President and Mrs. Bush will make remarks at the White House Assembly on Reading at the Library of Congress. And on Friday, the President will help dedicate the Eisenhower Executive Office Building and he'll host a reception in honor of Diez y Seis before departing for Camp David.
Q The Sunday Rose Garden event, is that open for coverage?
MR. FLEISCHER: Yes, it is.
Q Thank you.
Source (scroll down to the end)

And that's the end of the briefing. Al-Arian says "At 3:30 the president would have announced the end of secret evidence" - there's supposed to be some sort of "announcement" at 3:30, and yet the President's own press secretary doesn't bother to mention it to...the press, who would presumably be interested in covering any such public event with the President. Why? If you're making an announcement, ostensibly for public consumption, isn't it the press secretary's job to, you know, get the press involved by giving them a heads-up? Why doesn't the record reflect any such public event scheduled on that day, that Al-Arian claims was supposed to happen?