So? Why would you not feel good about yourself?
Because I care about the feelings and rights of others and (to some extent) their opinions of me.
They only exist because you perceive them. If you didn't perceive them, they would cease to exist.
Because if everyone behaved such, we would have anarchy and a failed society...
We don't need everybody to behave in this way. Just a few.
And because I imagine being in jail would really suck.
You're proving my point with this one.
No one is perfect,
What is perfect? (To coin a phrase.) How do you know you are not perfect? You can merely declare that all who deviate from yourself are imperfect by definition.
But most people try to do the right thing . . .
. . . because they have been civilized. If there is no abstract underpinning of that civilization, then it is merely a bunch of imposed rules that can be cast off with a stroke of the pen or a change in the zeitgeist.
All the more reason to behave in such a way that you feel good about the time you spent on this world.
Yeah, well that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee these days. How do you even define "good"? Suppose somebody said they wanted to save their neighbors from the pain of further existence? Were they acting "good"?
Not everyone is as selfish as yourself.
Yes they are. Everyone. Every single person.
Has religion ever done anything to prevent those who would "devour"?
Of course not. It's a baseline.
I still maintain that man is basically "good".
Really? Do you believe that when food is given away for free to the poor that the number of poor do not increase?
The bottom line here is that you are forming, in these posts, a rudimentary theology.
And guess who is the god.
Bingo! - IF man is the only determination of "good" (what man 'reasons') - then any man or group of men can change what is "good" - suddenly you have Nazi Germany!
So? Why would you not feel good about yourself?
I think I already explained this. But, basically, because it would be against my nature, against the moral code by which I try to live. This code, I believe, which is partly derived from the Christian beliefs the society in which I live is also partly "built in" and partly made up by me because I like to think about such things.
They only exist because you perceive them. If you didn't perceive them, they would cease to exist.
Exactly. I exist. I perceive them so they exist. Hehe, this is sort of like the tree that falls in the forest when no one is around, eh?"
We don't need everybody to behave in this way. Just a few.
You sort of lost me here. I think you mean that it only takes a few to act "evilly" to screw up the world - in which case, I agree. But religion has not stopped this, in fact, in some cases, it has promoted it.
And because I imagine being in jail would really suck.
You're proving my point with this one.
Perhaps I've misunderstood your point. I never claimed that my moral code was just created willy nilly from thin air or that fear of punishment was not a factor in my behavior - just that it is not the ONLY factor.
Yeah, well that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee these days. How do you even define "good"? Suppose somebody said they wanted to save their neighbors from the pain of further existence? Were they acting "good"?
I think "good" is not the best word for what I mean but I am having no luck dredging up a better one so.. I define it as behaving in a way that is not destructive to others. To have at least some desire to help your fellows when they need it. Indeed, to not behave as you described in the post I originally replied to.
Yes they are. Everyone. Every single person.
This is the view I can not accept or believe. I could not live my life if I believed this. It is the view of the classic sociopath.
Really? Do you believe that when food is given away for free to the poor that the number of poor do not increase?
No. By providing such for those who could otherwise provide for themselves, you are not doing them any favors - it is not a kindness. It would also encourage more to opt for the free ride.
The bottom line here is that you are forming, in these posts, a rudimentary theology.
And guess who is the god.
You are implying that my "theology" is one of self-worship.. that I see myself as my own diety.
I don't see it that way. It could be partially right if, as I've sometimes wondered, if mankind is god. That if I worship anything, it is the brotherhood of man. Its certainly not me. I am insigificant except to myself and those who love me.. (yeah, there are a few :) ).
.. and I am out of time. The parts I didn't quote are ommited because I didn't understand them or because they didn't really seem to conflict with my own argument.
I probably will be unable to reply again but, have at it. Oh and thanks! :)