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To: AmishDude
Why not?

Because it would be anti-social, non-productive, unfair, mean and would not make me feel very good about myself. Because I care about the feelings and rights of others and (to some extent) their opinions of me. Because if everyone behaved such, we would have anarchy and a failed society... Because it just wouldn't feel right and would be against my nature. And because I imagine being in jail would really suck.

You are the same way. You have generated some self-imposed guilt that prevents you from acting on your basest instincts.

I disagree. Sure everyone has their lusts, their aggressions, their temptations. No one is perfect, least of all me. We have all done things we are ashamed of. But most people try to do the right thing for the reasons listed above or, like you, because of their religious convictions.

Here's the reality: You're going to die anyway. That's it. Nothing more. Poofarooni. All for naught. In the long run, we're all John Maynard Keynes.

All the more reason to behave in such a way that you feel good about the time you spent on this world. To some, this involves behaving as you've described. Luckily, for most, it does not. Not everyone is as selfish as yourself.

Bwahahahaha. It only takes one wolf if there is no shepherd. Has history taught you nothing? Left to his own devices, man will devour to satiate his appetite.

Has religion ever done anything to prevent those who would "devour"? Wolves exist. How many have "devoured" in the name of god?

I still maintain that man is basically "good". Not universally so - there is evil in the world but we wouldn't have come as far as we have if it wasn't true, religion or no. I can't believe as you claim to. If I did I think I would end my life right now, today.

175 posted on 12/08/2003 11:09:55 AM PST by Trampled by Lambs (...and pecked by the dove...)
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To: Trampled by Lambs
Because it would be anti-social, non-productive, unfair, mean and would not make me feel very good about myself.

So? Why would you not feel good about yourself?

Because I care about the feelings and rights of others and (to some extent) their opinions of me.

They only exist because you perceive them. If you didn't perceive them, they would cease to exist.

Because if everyone behaved such, we would have anarchy and a failed society...

We don't need everybody to behave in this way. Just a few.

And because I imagine being in jail would really suck.

You're proving my point with this one.

No one is perfect,

What is perfect? (To coin a phrase.) How do you know you are not perfect? You can merely declare that all who deviate from yourself are imperfect by definition.

But most people try to do the right thing . . .

. . . because they have been civilized. If there is no abstract underpinning of that civilization, then it is merely a bunch of imposed rules that can be cast off with a stroke of the pen or a change in the zeitgeist.

All the more reason to behave in such a way that you feel good about the time you spent on this world.

Yeah, well that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee these days. How do you even define "good"? Suppose somebody said they wanted to save their neighbors from the pain of further existence? Were they acting "good"?

Not everyone is as selfish as yourself.

Yes they are. Everyone. Every single person.

Has religion ever done anything to prevent those who would "devour"?

Of course not. It's a baseline.

I still maintain that man is basically "good".

Really? Do you believe that when food is given away for free to the poor that the number of poor do not increase?

The bottom line here is that you are forming, in these posts, a rudimentary theology.

And guess who is the god.

181 posted on 12/08/2003 11:26:54 AM PST by AmishDude
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