Imagining "Imagine" : John Lennon's gibberish-filled anthem.

Daily Standard ^ | Joel Engel

[sarasota]

Let me guess at the answer: because of his conscience. It's all about the ego, not the higher power, for some.

[August West]

Just basic Grammar.

[BSunday]

Atheism with a capital "A" is a religion.

I've been hearing that for a number of years now, and I don't think it's a religion as much as it is an absence of religion. I think it's faulty to equate Atheism with Humanism. I don't know of any churches with "Church of Atheism" out front. I think we Christians will have to think more rationally and characterize things more fairly instead of coloring it with our pre-decided notions, if we want to be taken more seriously. IMO, "Atheism is a religion" is just one of those things someone said that everyone agreed with, without really thinking about it, just because it sounded like general acceptance of it would make life better for Christians in the political arena.

[LikeLight]

I don't endorse anything suggested in the song. But I am not bent out of shape by merely being asked to imagine them. What are you so afraid of?

What I am so afraid of is people like Stalin, Mao and Hitler who kill millions in the name of achieving the Utopian vision John Lennon sets before us in Imagine . . . large chunks of gullible humanity have bought into these lies before and it can happen again . . . a song like Imagine helps to subtly set the stage for slaughter . . .

[BSunday]

I personally can't enjoy the song because of the lyrics

Me too, although the melody is very pretty.

[stuartcr]

And being bad doesn't make people hitlers either. Hitlers get much more publicity than Theresas, I would venture to say that there have been many more people as good as Mother Theresa, in the world, than hitlers.

[Taliesan]

I am a Christian, but I don't think "religion" is all that keeps people from descending into barbarism.

There is a "natural" law, built into the heart of every person. I think the Creator built it there, and it is there whether you later in life become a Christian, an atheist, or a druid. Others think is evolved with us as we arose majestically from the bio soup. That's an argument for another thread.

I think a government with an official religion is hell on earth, and the only thing worse is a government officially atheist. They're both pretty bad. The only tolerable government is one that thinks it is too dumb to know.

[Revolting cat!]

Imagine no Hitlery, 
And no fans legion too!

[Stone Mountain]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Imagining "Imagine" : John Lennon's gibberish-filled anthem. , sarasota wrote: Let me guess at the answer: because of his conscience. It's all about the ego, not the higher power, for some.

Yeah, but if conscience is enough to stop people from thosee bad acts, then what do we need religion for? His original premise was that man needed religion to stop us from being murderers, rapists, etc. But apparently he was able to make the decision not to murder or rape without the benefit of religion. If that's the case, I'm wondering why he doesn't think everyone else could do so as well...

[August West]

Morality, as passed onto me through religion. That's also the origin of my rights as a human - so, I ain't complaining.

[A Navy Vet]

You made a leap from my original statement by comparing deaths from organized religion to deaths by atheism. I have no arguement regarding the misery caused by atheist totalitarian regimes, but that's a different topic from what I was originally addressing.

My point wasn't that religious motives cause MORE suffering than atheist control motives, I'm just saying it's one more reason that people go to war and suffer. Case in point: 9/11 and the various regimes that we are fighting because of their radical religious fanatics...which is usually instigated by their organizational hierarchy. Believe in what you will, but organized religion is much to political for my tastes.

[LikeLight]

The only tolerable government is one that thinks it is too dumb to know.

Now that's a profound (and correct) philosophy brilliantly stated.

[dfwgator]

IMAGINE THERE'S NO LENNON..... Ah... thats better.

Mark David Chapman took care of that.

[sarasota]

I'll await his answer. The "water" is getting a little too muddy.

[Taliesan]

I agree. I have the same experience with alot (not all) pop music, because in pop art of all kinds the form and the content disconnect and can contradict each other.

Madonna had a song about ten years ago with an achingly sweet melody. I loved it. Then I listened to the words...they are addressed to a parting, and false, lover.

When once I understand the words, I can't pretend I don't. Some can, apparently; I can't, and don't want to be able to.

[Trampled by Lambs]

But morality, based upon religious principles, is the foundation for law across the world. Always has been.

Exactly. This is the world we live in. My point is that religion, in itself, does not stop people from being "bad" nor does it ensure that people will be "good". People will always do evil things, either because they can not control themselves or because they justify it using religion (hi there, Osama!) and imagining that god is on their side. Thus I can easily imagine that a world without religion (or one that had progressed beyond it) might not be that bad of a thing. (keyword: imagine)

..and yes, I believe in good and evil.. I just see them as human conditions and concepts, not as religious beings.

[August West]

Some animals rape e.g. Monkeys. Societal mores and laws all stem from religion.

[LikeLight]

Imagine a world in which good and evil co-exist . . . now imagine that evil attacks good . . . should good just stand there and let itself be overcome by evil? Should good embrace evil? Or should good resist evil?



Because that's the world we live in. And we face this decision every day.

[cars for sale]

I can see that and for me it always was biscuits and gravy

[Trampled by Lambs]

I am a Christian, but I don't think "religion" is all that keeps people from descending into barbarism. There is a "natural" law, built into the heart of every person. I think the Creator built it there, and it is there whether you later in life become a Christian, an atheist, or a druid. Others think is evolved with us as we arose majestically from the bio soup. That's an argument for another thread.

I think a government with an official religion is hell on earth, and the only thing worse is a government officially atheist. They're both pretty bad. The only tolerable government is one that thinks it is too dumb to know.

Very good. You and I are in complete agreement except that I think that this "natural law" is just built in to most people and not put there by a god.

But then, I have no way of knowing that you may very well be right which is why I call myself an agnostic rather than athiest.