Choice and Accountability: "Bush has redefined conservatism." (Barone)

U.S. News & World Report | 12/15/03 | Michael Barone

[bdeaner]

So true. Sad, but true.

[IronJack]

I'm sorry. I forgot that expanding the powers of search and seizure, overriding habeus corpus, and nullifying the right to a speedy trial are all designed to PROTECT us. They must be. They were signed into law by a Republican.

What is the mantra? "Republicans can do no wrong. Republicans can do no wrong. Republicans can do no wrong."

Please pray for me now and at the hour of my death.

[William McKinley]

I already pinged you to this, but for cross-thread reference, Panic and the Patriot Act.

I did like the hour of your death line though. A very nice rhetorical flourish. Maybe no one will notice that you really don't live in a police state and you sound like Al Gore if you talk that way. At least, you can hope.

[IronJack]

Gestapo is short for Geheime Statdstpolizei, National Secret Police. I suppose "Department of Homeland Defense" is more palatable, although there are those who would swallow it no matter the title.

But what am I saying???? "Republicans can do no wrong. Republicans can do no wrong. Republicans can do no wrong."

Why is my faith not stronger????

[William McKinley]

I cannot be any more direct than this: if you think there is any bit of reasonable comparison to be made between the Department of Homeland Security and the Gestapo, then three things are clear.

1) You obviously have not a clue as to what the Gestapo was really like.

2) Your ability to discern your surroundings is severely lacking compared to most people.

3) You would fit in just fine with Howard Dean, Al Gore, and the rest of the Democrats; you speak the same language.

Although only Sharpton would think to throw in the lines relating to prayers.

[IronJack]

"Republicans can do no wrong.
Republicans can do no wrong.
Republicans can do no wrong."

[IronJack]

1) You obviously have not a clue as to what the Gestapo was really like.

I think I do. And whether I do or not, the Gestapo had to start somewhere. Maybe with an act authorizing the surveillance of domestic "troublemakers"?

2) Your ability to discern your surroundings is severely lacking compared to most people.

I don't know. I suspect a lot of people are alarmed by the Patriot Act. I seem to recall some commotion about it here and there. Not among The Faithful, of course. They would follow George Bush off a cliff. But a few have strayed from the path of blind faith, and they're asking embarrassing questions.

3) You would fit in just fine with Howard Dean, Al Gore, and the rest of the Democrats; you speak the same language.

And you would fit in well with the Brownshirts. You seem appropriately offended that anyone would dare question the Glorious Leader.

Although only Sharpton would think to throw in the lines relating to prayers.

But he would make them rhyme.

Republicans can do no wrong.
Republicans can do no wrong.
Republicans can do no wrong.

[William McKinley]

You are an amazingly skilled debator. Your ability to come up with complex concepts and represent them with aplomb is quite impressive. I bow before your superior intellect.

By the way, Republicans do wrong all the time, and if you had bothered to do a search on posts and read a bit, you would have seen me bitching about CFR.

But no, some people are too lazy to be bothered with finding things out.

Your 'Republicans can do no wrong' mantra is a complete nonsequitor. The 'debate' here has gone like this:

Me: I support the Patriot Act although I think it could be improved.

You: The Patriot Act created the Gestapo.

Me: It did no such thing, and apparently you have no clue what the Gestapo was really like.

You: You obviously think Republicans can do no wrong.

You may want to take a night course at a local college; you could use Logic 101.

[William McKinley]

Maybe with an act authorizing the surveillance of domestic "troublemakers"?

Make up your mind- do you know about the Gestapo, or not? If you knew about them, how they got started and what they did, you wouldn't be asking.

But I do like the "maybe" game. Maybe they got started with an act authorizing the surveillance of domestic troublemakers.

Maybe they got started as a group that would spread lies and propaganda and try to scare people; maybe the Patriot Act isn't the start of the Gestapo, maybe you are!

Maybe they got started by responding to a newspaper ad!

Maybe!

But no, actually it was none of those things. The Gestapo was created by an act (Geheimes Polizei Act) directly. They were a secret police, from the start. And from the start, they were "little more than a personal instrument of terror employed by Goering to arrest and murder opponents of the regime." [Rise and Fall of the Third Reich]

They didn't sort of evolve. They were created to fill the role that they did, right from the start.

So when you see a Geheimes Polizei Act, then your Gestapo cry will have some basis in reality. Right now it just makes you look like a paranoid old fool who sounds exactly like Michael Moore.

[IronJack]

Republicans can do no wrong.
I love Big Brother.
Republicans can do no wrong.
I love Big Brother.
Republicans can do no wrong.
I love Big Brother.

There is no way you can "improve" an act that by its very nature restricts the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Unless it's to more efficiently restrict those rights.

Sorry, I forgot the mantra again ...

And you might want to research the phrase "moral relativity." If it's wrong when "they" do it, it's wrong when "we" do it.

[William McKinley]

Unfortunately, your views are not consistent with what is in the bill.

But that's fine. You can live in fantasy land if you want, however I sure wouldn't want to because it sounds like imaginary world you inhabit is quite scary.

[IronJack]

[the]imaginary world you inhabit is quite scary.

And I'm sure the lollipop world of blind faith is quite reassuring. Illusionary, to be sure. But warm and fuzzy and comforting ... right up till the time your door gets kicked in and you're hauled away screaming "But I'm one of YOU!!!!"

[singsong]

To me, "conservatism" implies the raising of the individual to his true status vis.a vis. "government".

STARWISE I don't think you looked closely into the above statement and don't think it's a put-down. You are right that, there are some urgent issues to take care of. There will always be. All issues though have to be handled in a distinctly conservative and consistent political manner - it will only help resolving them. Otherwise we may win the battle but lose the war. Do you know which one?

[Hildy]

Have any of you ever heard this song?:

My Conservative Girlfriend
The Foremen
From the album Folk Heroes, © 1995
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She's a real type A.
And she's over-insured.
Her favorite castaway
Is Thurston Howell, the third.

She doesn't like big government,
So it's no surprise
I can be her lover,
Long as I downsize.

My conservative girlfriend,
Got a tiny little heart of passion.
My conservative girlfriend,
Every Friday we go liberal bashin'.

She's got the Supreme Court
Tatooed on her rump
Beside an autographed port-
trait of Donald Trump.

And from the day I checked her out
From front to back.
I knew her private sector
Could take up the slack.

My conservative girlfriend,
Got a tiny little heart of passion.
My conservative girlfriend,
Every Sunday we go Medicare slashin'.

She only deals in quality narcotics and guns.
She's got a Mexican wallet made from real Mexicans.

My conservative girlfriend,
Got a tiny little heart of passion.
My conservative girlfriend,
Her white collar and her red neck are clashin'.

My conservative girlfriend,
Think she's looking for a good tongue-lashin'.
My conservative girlfriend,
Every summer we go wilderness trashin'.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"Bush has defined conservatism."

Just as I envisioned... The critique of Bush's risky spending scheme ;-) and the rising threat level of Dean...

has caused RNC loyalists, hacks and Bushbots to go on the offensive.

Gillespie characterizes fiscal conservs as extremists.

[singsong]

McCain-Feingold? Short-term compromise gain, long-term gain compromise(of the Constitution).

I hate it when I have to fix your grammar.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

This article is the defining example of what is wrong with the party. Thanks Barone, for saying what the leadership will not. we have been sold out by the latest generation of Republican leadership. It's over.

Gillespie tried to hide this fact for as long as possible. Now it's in the open. On WABC radio, in an exclusive, he said that fiscal conserv was merely one ideology in the party, not to be put above other ideologies. He does not subscibe to it. The hacks are now marginalizing us.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

And the Homeland Sec Dept is a joke, and will be used to grant all illegals amnesty after the election- you can take that to the bank.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"The American public is moving left, following the cloud on the horizon made by the Democrats in their flight to total socialism. "

The rep party shifted to the center, and the Dems shifted to 'progressivism'.

In other words, there are two new parties: The Socialist Democrats and the Liberal Republicans.

This is the reality.

[Consort]

Conservatism is what it is, and you don't redefine it to fit your agenda, at least not if you're honest.

Correct and all of us neo paleo macro poly meta archeo metro pluri necro pan genetic mono multi myria meso medio mani oligo hypo veteri plaid seni iso syn ultra ceno fuller-brush uni novi ideo intimi omni arch nema staunch paro idio mega ortho para peri pachy proto pseudo sym tauto coc-con hypno teleo single-issue duct-tape syl real auto hyper holo RINO exo endo dys caco amphi allo acro scissorshead ambi ante urban apo phobic organic sover contra South-Park pater de Clinton intus super broken-glass rockhead circum narco extra conto ento infra intra trans post con retro sub ecto supra inter meth per socio national-greatness conservatives know that. We are united.