Posted on 12/07/2003 7:55:02 AM PST by narses
I think he expanded on this point a bit, talking about how atheists are generally unfulfilled people. It's a bit more than that, but that's the idea. Atheists are not fulfilled people.
Like the old saying goes, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
Not everyone is a zealot, but everyone that's ever been exposed to the conflicts of real life winds up believing in something. Eventually, some atheists will settle into causes that they use in place of spiritual belief. For instance, the ACLU or science. Others just don't think about it.
Well rounded atheists are like famous moderate leaders in history. They just don't exist. Every atheist I have ever known, regardless of temperment, seems to lack some element of the human dynamic. I suspect this is the authors point.
Ive found that unsupportable attacks out of left field like that usually say more about the accuser than the accused. Simply because ones stand is not based in theology", does not mean that he stands for nothing.
Like for profit? Yes, my mothers in one right now.
I did notice this "saying" as theri philosphy:
"Following the tradition of the Golden Rule Do Unto Others As You Would Have Others Do Unto You
The Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is found in the scriptures of nearly every religion.
Translation: If you don't believe that the real world is but a pawn in a battle between competing supernatural personalities who only communicate to us via mental telepathy, then you'll be bereft of moral convictions.
Makes sense to me!
Not everyone is a zealot, but everyone that's ever been exposed to the conflicts of real life winds up believing in something. Eventually, some atheists will settle into causes that they use in place of spiritual belief. For instance, the ACLU or science. Others just don't think about it.
Now that's an interesting claim: Science itself is a "spiritual belief". It would seem to me that the scientific process is the very antithesis of a spiritual belief. Science is a method of investigating the world that's designed to eliminate as much subjectivity as possible, thus leading as close to truly objective knowledge of the world as possible.
If that qualifies as a "spiritual belief" to you, then how can the term "spiritual belief" have any meaning at all?
I think you're confusing yourself because you assume that the only way we can come up with something to care about is through belief in supernatural people. But rest assured, there are many people and causes right here in the real world that are quite important enough to compel us to build & uphold secure moral principles.
I didnt notice that. Im no historian, but I suspect that it preceded nearly every religion. And being that living in a society with principles is in mans rational self-interest, ethics such as this are part of Objecitivism.
All I was making was a general observation that people in modern societies that don't believe in a higher power of some form tend not to believe in anything. Animists, Wiccans and polytheists are not atheists, even some environmentalists ascribe the planet itself a form of higher power. Even agnostics admit that they simply don't know.
Atheists, real atheists, are, in my limited experience, neither happy nor fulfilled people.
Without theology or spirituality, you're basically left with some human or scientifically oriented philosophy to fill the void. It could be communism, or technology, or UFOs. It could be avoidance of the question.
Either way, it's not my business. People are free to believe in or not believe in whatever they like, and that suits me just fine. In fact, I think intellectual freedom is a great strength. Everyone chooses their own path, I'm just pointing out that some paths are happier and more fulfilling to lead than others.
Translation: If you don't believe that the real world is but a pawn in a battle between competing supernatural personalities who only communicate to us via mental telepathy, then you'll be bereft of moral convictions.
That would be a very narrow way of putting it. To be more general, and more precise, I'd say that if you don't believe in a benevolent higher power of some form, you will likely fall for a darker or more mechanical world view. This world view will likely result in your stay on Earth being less fulfilling and happy than it could have been.
People who have never heard of the Bible or the Koran can be atheists. I'm sure there are some very happy Buddhists and animists out there.
As far as science being a religion, I apologize for the shorthand reference. Yes, you are right in that moral behavior can be scientifically proven to benefit humanity. That will never sell more than a fraction of the human race on the importance of morality.
My point is that faith in science may be enough of a guiding light for someone with no spiritual faith. We can pretend that if we build faster machines, larger cities, and invent more flavors of ice cream then we'll someday be happy. Many scientists take their causes to heart, and are fulfilled by them. But science is not an end unto itself. It simply allows us to understand and manipulate the world around us.
This can be a noble endeavor. It sure beats sitting in caves waiting for it to get warm again. I just don't think that people who put their faith in science alone, that is people who believe in nothing besides what can be proven, are getting the full experience that life has to offer.
To me, the only disadvantage to being an atheist is we don't get to believe that we'll live forever. OTOH, that does mean that this life is the only life we get, and so the principles that guide our actions are important in themselves because of the consequences to ourselves & others.
I disagree. The cut Christmas tree was a symbol of Germany's break with paganism. Supposedly Martin Luther brought the first Christmas Tree to England as a symbol of peace and goodwill towards Germany.
I do the same. Most of them seem to appreciate it.
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