Stone Warrior Delights Experts (Celts)

BBC ^ | 12-5-2003 | Paul Rincon

[blam]

Ping.

[blam]

Origin Of The Celts - Caucasian, Not European

[expatpat]

Actually, the origin of all Europeans is the Caucasian area, but these had earlier come from Africa. This has been demonstrated by Y chromosome DNA analysis. (The Y chromosome is passed on unchanged from Father to son, except rare mutations arise every now and then in the chain and are passed on. These mutations act as markers to trace a current Y chromosome back up the chain).

[Smocker]

Geez, I always taught the celts were from Iberian peninsula in origin.

[BenLurkin]

Interesting

[farmfriend]

Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

[blam]

Gene Study Identifies 5 Main Human Populations

[expatpat]

That's interesting. It's a static look at this time, whereas the Y-C study is a historical look at the races as they migrated and evolved from the African bushman, who was the forefather of us all.

I believe most of the world's population, including Amerinds, came from the Caucasian area via different paths. Exceptions are the Australian aborigines and a group in India.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"The "Warrior of Lattes" is described in the scholarly journal Antiquity".......


as the founder of Starbucks?

[blam]

I don't think we have enough data to draw those conclusions. Read the article linked below.

Stranger In A New Land (Archaeology)

[expatpat]

The migration I'm referring to took place about 25-50,000 yrs ago (I forget the more-exact number), long after the period your article refers to. The Y-chromosome technique doesn't go past that time because it's based on comparing DNA between living men. The tracking back using Y-chromosome markers goes back from Europeans to the Caucasus to the Bushmen in Africa who use clicks to communicate (they don't look like equatorial Africans, but have faces with hints of Kurd and eskimo in them). If you do the same thing with Amerinds, the track goes back to Siberia and then Caucasus, again.

An Ice Age at that time caused a major drought in Africa and thus migration through the Middle East to the Caucasus where our ancestors stayed for a while, before spreading out into Europe, Siberia (and thence N. America), India, etc.

We are all related to the Bushmen, but of course that doesn't mean there weren't other hominids before the bushmen living around the world. Clearly, there were. Their genes disappeared, however, either because their progeny ran out of sons (e.g., my Y is going to disappear since I only had daughters) or they couldn't compete with the bushmen. The latter is most likely, tho', since a DNA study done on the matriarchal path also leads to one female bush-person (!) as our common ancestor.

[blam]

Some support for your ideas?

African Click Language 'Holds Key To Origins Of Earliest Human Speech'

[Cronos]

blam -- the site you've posted has a tendency of posting speculation -- interesting reading, but speculation nonetheless. It's punctuated by too much of 'I think's. No hard evidence and too much credence is given to myths in their entirety. For instance, the talkg about Aesir and Vanir is patently incorrect. The Aesir and Vanir are derivative of an old Aryanic religion and finds echoes in Hinduism and the pre-Zoroastrian Irani religions.

[Cronos]

An Ice Age at that time caused a major drought in Africa and thus migration through the Middle East to the Caucasus where our ancestors stayed for a while, before spreading out into Europe, Siberia (and thence N. America), India, etc.

That's a very credible theory and makes a lot of sense -- the Ice Age would also have created the Sahara desert cutting off what would become the non-Afroid groups. Those which remained in the Caucasus would have been seperated from the Mongoloid group, again because of the Ice age in Siberia.

[Cronos]

Expat's theories do make a lot of sense. also, when you think about it, modern day Afroids can be distinguished as Bantu from West Africa and Bushmen and Ethiopians fromt he horn of Africa. The Ethiopians are tall, slim, and don't have the pronounced Afroid features -- flat noses etc. so could be closely related to the Bushmen and to Caucasoids (or then again it could be that since Ethiopia-Somalia is so close to Egypt-Sumeria-india they would have some racial interaction)

[expatpat]

You're very kind, but too kind in ascribing the theory to me. It is not mine, but due to some folks (I don't remember any names) who did Y-chromosome marker tracking in many places in the world. There was a program on PBS about it, which is where I heard it.

It works like this: The Y chromosome is passed from father to son unaltered, since the mother has no Y. However, occasionally, a mutation occurs, and after a string of identical Y chromosomes in succeeding males, there arises one with one small change in it (a marker). This in turn is propagated through many generations until another mutation occurs.

In this way you can track back the chromosomes for two men in different countries to a point where the later different sets of markers do not exist and both men share a common male ancestor. They tracked native Amerinds back to Siberia, then back to Central Asia near Uzhbekastan, (and Europeans back to the same area), and from Central Asia back to this one Bantu tribe in Africa.

[blam]

Gene Study Identifies 5 Main Human Populations

[expatpat]

Thanks, interesting. Of course, the 'markers' in this study are different from the mutation markers I was talking about.

Regarding the posted article as a whole, some folks are really uptight about accepting racial differences. Of course, these are the same people who want to list race on the census form and use race in university admissions.

[Polybius]

Geez, I always taught the celts were from Iberian peninsula in origin.

No. They had moved into the Iberian peninsula but did not originate there.

Originally, the Celts conquered northern and central Iberia. The Iberians then reoccupied what is now the Basque region cutting off the Iberian Celts from their Celtic cousins in Gaul.