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Victor Davis Hanson: A Real War, Fighting the worst fascists since Hitler.
National Review Online ^ | December 05, 2003 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 12/05/2003 6:34:15 AM PST by Tolik

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1 posted on 12/05/2003 6:34:16 AM PST by Tolik
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To: xkaydet65; Fury; .cnI redruM; xsysmgr; yonif; SJackson; monkeyshine; Alouette; anniegetyourgun; ...
Victor Davis Hanson moral clarity huge BUMP  [please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Victor Davis Hanson articles]

If you want to bookmark his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-victordavishanson/browse

His NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp


2 posted on 12/05/2003 6:35:37 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
Great post!!

However, I believe the discussion here will overload our pluralistic circuits.

3 posted on 12/05/2003 6:38:32 AM PST by aardvark1
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To: Tolik
No, we are in a worldwide struggle the likes of which we have not seen since World War II.

It's true. And people are either siding with Hitler, or they are siding with us. I can think of 9 Democrats who are siding with Hitler.

4 posted on 12/05/2003 6:44:28 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
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To: Tolik
He nails it, doesn't he?
5 posted on 12/05/2003 6:49:47 AM PST by RichardW
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To: Tolik
Great post. Except the part about Franco. When will people realize the man was a hero of western civilization. He was the first man to stand up to the communists and kick them out of his country inch by bloody inch. Prior to the war he had no political aspirations. He attended mass every Sunday while serving in some remote outpost in the Canary Islands. Only when the communists dragged one their leading opponent (the Spanish equivalent of Frist or Hastert) out onto the streets in the middle of the night and shot him in the head did he say "enough". He butchered the communists by the thousands. Yes, he accepted help from Hitler. But he told Hitler to go pound sand during WWII and gave safe haven to more Jews than any other country in the world. Did he kill a bunch of anarchists and lefties-absolutely-but only after they were done raping nuns and murdering priests.

Bottom line, he kicked Stalins ass, and that makes him O.K in my book. Flame away.

6 posted on 12/05/2003 6:56:51 AM PST by MattinNJ (If someone says happy holidays to me, I say Merry Christmas to them.)
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To: Tolik
Oh yeah, could you please put me on your ping list. Thanks very much.
7 posted on 12/05/2003 6:57:32 AM PST by MattinNJ (If someone says happy holidays to me, I say Merry Christmas to them.)
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To: RichardW
I think this is exceptional, even by VDH usual high standards.

Most of the recent dead were noncombatants. All were either attempting to feed or aid Muslims, or simply wished to be left alone in peace. Their killers operate through the money and sanctuary of Middle East rogue regimes, the implicit support of thousands in the Muslim street, and the tacit neglect of even "moderate" states in the region — as long as the tally of killing is in the half-dozens or so, and not noticeable enough to threaten foreign investment or American aid, or to earn European disapproval.

But when the carnage is simply too much (too many Muslims killed as collateral damage or too many minutes on CNN), then suspects are miraculously arrested in Turkey or Saudi Arabia, or in transit to Iran or Syria — but more often post facto and never with any exegesis about why killers who once could not be found now suddenly are. No wonder Pakistani intelligence officers, Palestinian security operatives, Syrian diplomats, and Iraqis working for the Coalition are all at times exposed as having abetted the terrorists.

Yet it hasn't been a good six months for the Islamists' public relations. Billions the world over are slowly coming to a consensus that the Islamists' killing has cast as a shadow over the Middle East — a deeply disturbed place, better left to stew in its own juices. Only its exports of oil, religious extremism, and terror — not its manufacturing, science, medicine, banking, tourism, humanitarianism, literature, research, or philanthropy — seem to earn global attention. This is all a great tragedy, but one that, after September 11, gives us no time for tears.

 

8 posted on 12/05/2003 6:58:38 AM PST by Tolik
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To: MattinNJ
Done. Thanks
9 posted on 12/05/2003 6:59:43 AM PST by Tolik
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To: IncPen; Nailbiter
Bump for a warrior's look at the middle east....
10 posted on 12/05/2003 7:01:02 AM PST by BartMan1
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To: trajanus_red
VDH alert!
11 posted on 12/05/2003 7:04:35 AM PST by diotima
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To: Tolik
Bump
12 posted on 12/05/2003 7:04:39 AM PST by jokar (Beware of the White European Male Christian theological complex !!)
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To: jokar
VDH:

Remember the worry about "getting the message out"?  ......  Sorry, the truth is just the opposite. The Arab street knows full well that we give billions to Jordan, Egypt, and the Palestinians — and are probably baffled that we don't cut it out. They also know we have just as frequently fought Christians on their behalf as Muslims; they know — if their voting feet tell them anything — that no place is more tolerant of their religion or more open to immigration than the United States. ........

.....No, the message, much less getting it out, is not the problem. It is rather the nature of America — our freewheeling, outspoken, prosperous, liberty-loving citizens extend equality to women, homosexuals, minorities, and almost anyone who comes to our shores, and thereby create desire and with it shame for that desire. Indeed, it is worse still than that: Precisely because we worry publicly that we are insensitive, our enemies scoff privately that we in fact are too sensitive — what we think is liberality and magnanimity they see as license and decadence. If we don't have confidence in who we are, why should they?


13 posted on 12/05/2003 7:08:02 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
BTTT! Spot on.
14 posted on 12/05/2003 7:09:14 AM PST by CarryaBigStick
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To: Tolik
So with the demise of the Cold War, these pathologies came to full maturity.

I recall reading at the time the wall fell and the USSR disintegrated a writer(NR?) made the point that all these ethnic/religious hatered would now rise up. And contrary to the popular belief at the time "peace" was not at hand.
15 posted on 12/05/2003 7:11:08 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: diotima
Quote away:

To arrest this dangerous trend requires a radical reappraisal of our entire relationship with the Middle East. A Radio Free Europe, though valuable, nevertheless did not free Eastern Europe; nor did Voice of America. Containment and deterrence did. As long as governments in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and many Gulf states encourage hatred of the United States, we must quietly consider them de facto little different from a Libya, Syria, or Iran. For all the glitter and imported Western graphics, al Jazeera and its epigones are not that much different from Radio Berlin of the 1930s.

We had also better reexamine entirely the way we use force in the Middle East. We did not drive on to Baghdad in 1991 out of concern for the "coalition" — and got 350,000 sorties in the no-fly zones in return. We chose to worry about rebuilding before the current war ended, and let thousands of Baathist killers fade away, and in the aftermath allowed mass looting and continual killing before our most recent get-tough policy.

In fact, anytime we have showed restraint — using battleship salvos and cruise missiles when our Marines were killed, our embassies blown up, and our diplomats murdered; allowing the killers on the Highway of Death to reach Basra in 1991; letting Saddam use his helicopters to gun down innocents — we have earned disdain, not admiration. In contrast, the hijackers chose not to take the top off the World Trade Center, but to incinerate the entire building — proof that they wished not to send us a message but to kill us all, and to kill us to the applause of millions, if the recent popularity of Osama bin Laden and his henchmen in the Arab street is any indication.

...... We should accept that dissidents would never have toppled Saddam on their own — and are not quite sure what to do even in his absence. Victory alone, not stalemate or a bellum interruptum, will free the Arab people and extend to them the same opportunities now found in Eastern Europe.


16 posted on 12/05/2003 7:13:26 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
Brilliant. I've yet to read anything remotely this articulate or well reasoned from the left regarding their veiw of the Middle East.
17 posted on 12/05/2003 7:14:20 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son)
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To: RichardW
He nails it, doesn't he?

Well he left a few dimples in the wood, but yeah, he finally drove the nail in.

His biggest "miss" in this is that he focuses on the U.S. vs. the salamikazes, and thus misses out on some really important elements of this war.

For example, he unaccountably leaves out the actions of France, Germany, and (to a lesser extent) Russia. The actions of, say, Syria can't really be explained unless we factor in the fact of their waiting to see what France will do. So it's not simply a matter of our "sensitivity" (though that's assuredly part of the equation).

And, because Hanson does not mention France and Germany, he also fails to address how we should deal with them in this war. No amount of moral clarity or "getting tough" will have any great effect if France and Germany are standing by to quibble about our actions, and thus give ammunition to our enemies.

I'd give him about 80% on this....

18 posted on 12/05/2003 7:16:11 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Steel Wolf
More VDH:

Peace and harmony will come, but only when the Middle East, not us, changes-which, tragically, will be brought along more quickly by deterrence and defiance than appeasement and dialogue. President Bush was terribly criticized for his exasperated "bring them on," but that was one of his most honest, heartfelt — and needed — ex tempore remarks of this entire conflict.

We are not in a war with a crook in Haiti. This is no Grenada or Panama — or even a Kosovo or Bosnia. No, we are in a worldwide struggle the likes of which we have not seen since World War II. The quicker we understand that awful truth, and take measures to defeat rather than ignore or appease our enemies, the quicker we will win. In a war such as this, the alternative to victory is not a brokered peace, but abject Western suicide and all that it entails — a revelation of which we saw on September 11.


19 posted on 12/05/2003 7:17:45 AM PST by Tolik
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To: r9etb
He did it many-many times in other articles, see for example one of the recent ones:

Victor Davis Hanson To Brits: If It Weren't For America, You Wouldn't Be Free To Protest

If you are relatively new to his writings, see his archives:

His NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp  and discussions about his articles here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-victordavishanson/browse

 

 

20 posted on 12/05/2003 7:24:18 AM PST by Tolik
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