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In Germany, we make a difference between killing someone, encouraging someone to kill (like giving money or sth else) and helping someone to kill another. While we punish the first two groups of people with life imprisonment, those who help the offender but actually do not pull the trigger themselves (like the car driver on a run after a bank robbery) can get a 15 year term in prison. This is justified because they were not the leading figures in the crime, unlike the encouraging person and the offender himself. In fact it´s our belief that restrictions on freedom must be considered very good and limited only to necessary terms. This guy didn´t want to committ the crime by himself, so we need to "reward" him for having been too shy to do it. If he would get the same sentence like the offender and the encourager, what else would prevent others from pulling the trigger next time too? We need to make that distinction.

As a military individual, you understand that, very often, the trigger puller is the lowest ranking individual in the entire enterprise.

The "crime" is the murder of 3,000 human beings and it was a team effort such as any military operation is a team effort. One can always argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and try to say which part of the team effort was the crime and which part was not. You can carry such intellectual exercises to the conclusion that the terrorists sitting in the pilot's seats of those planes were merely hijackers flying unsafely.

Under U.S. law, such scenarios are classified as "Conspiracies". The elements and punishment for conspiracy are well outlined and explained U.S. military law in Punitive Articles of the UCMJ: Article 81—Conspiracy

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Elements:

(1) That the accused entered into an agreement with one or more persons to commit an offense under the code; and

(2) That, while the agreement continued to exist, and while the accused remained a party to the agreement, the accused or at least one of the co-conspirators performed an overt act for the purpose of bringing about the object of the conspiracy.

Maximum punishment:

Any person subject to the code who is found guilty of conspiracy shall be subject to the maximum punishment authorized for the offense which is the object of the conspiracy, except that in no case shall the death penalty be imposed.

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It is not the death penalty or lack thereof that is repulsive. The UCMJ does not provide for the death penalty.

It is sentencing a man to less than 44 hours per human death that is repulsive.

And punishment in Germany follows two aims: preventing him from doing it again/integrate him into society and punish him for his crimes. Apparently, unlike you, my country believes in the New Testament (love your enemies). We don´t need to take it litterally. We can forgive, and we don´t believe that a state has the right to kill except in self-defense (war). The saying "eye for an eye" doesn´t work - just look at Israel/Palestine. The last judgment is up to God, not to us!

Let's try to keep God out of this. The last time that Germany invoked "Gott Mit Uns" to justify their national policy and inscribed those words on their military belt buckles, things did not turn out so well.

This "Germany loves it's neighbors unlike you Old Testament Americans" is an example the the manic depressive moral values extremes I mentioned in Post #14. In exterminating the untermemchen, Germans invoked God. In treating a terrorist with kid gloves, you now invoke God.

Let's try to keep things on the "Render unto Caesar that things that are Caesars" level with the knowledge that we have two different Caesars.

That being said, Western Europe's endless cycle of war and violence and genocide ended when America's Caesar enforced his value system upon Western Europe in 1945.

If Germany is at peace now, you can thank that American value system that did not try to get your eyes but also your heart and your liver and your lungs as the French did at Versailles.

If Germany is at peace now, you can thank that American value system that did not try to "forgive" the Nazis.

As I understand it, in Germany, it is still illegal for a military model builder to adorn his model of an Me.109 with a historically correct Nazi swastika.

Not much "forgiveness" there. Not that there should be.

As a military individual, you understand that, very often, the trigger puller is the lowest ranking individual in the entire enterprise.

Sure, but we´re not in the military. In the armed forces, the lower ranks have no alternative, they obey orders (except the orders mean a crime, etc). The criminals decided on their own which part they played. That´s why we judge everyone on his individual guilt. The hijacker wanted to crush the plane into WTC A, so he did it. His accomplice has chosen to stay in Hamburg, so he did not that much for the crime.

And again, in the military, those who give orders are responsible for the actions of their soldiers. It´s the same here: bin Laden is also responsible for what Atta and others did. He encouraged them to committ murder in 3000+ cases. The guy on trial right now did not encourage or promote the murder, he did his little part. He surely was no leading person.

A rant again. Where´s the connection between the Nazi era and today´s Germany and todays trial? Nothing. Our justice system is based on the Christian values, unlike in the Nazi era.

This "Germany loves it's neighbors unlike you Old Testament Americans" is an example the the manic depressive moral values extremes I mentioned in Post #14. In exterminating the untermemchen, Germans invoked God. In treating a terrorist with kid gloves, you now invoke God.

You still haven´t told me the connection between the Nazi era and our democratic justice system. Our moral values are conclusions of the Christian religion and our experiences of the Nazi past. We will never treat a prisoner or a suspect the way the Nazis did it, and we respect the value of each life, even of those people who have did so cruel things. Even today, a Hitler would not get more than a (literally) life-long imprisonment. No matter how many deaths he may be responsible for.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with improper self-defense or punishment. You can punish someone and forgive him to the extent, that the state rejects any form of taking revenge.

Finally, yes, I disregard the "eye for eye" quote. It´s not appropriate to found a justice system on it. Every Sunday I pray the pater-noster (Our Father...), and every Sunday, I announce: "as we also have forgiven our debtors."

So what about forgiving them? It´s not that we invite them to do their awful work a second time, but at least we´re not following our emotions but look at the objective individual offense of them.

It´s the law, and if you don´t understand our view now, I have failed. My task was to present you the position of me, my government and my people, and if you still do not understand my words, I can´t help you anymore. My task is not to persuade you, I did the best I can to explain it to you.

FReegards,

Michael