Sure, but we´re not in the military. In the armed forces, the lower ranks have no alternative, they obey orders (except the orders mean a crime, etc). The criminals decided on their own which part they played. That´s why we judge everyone on his individual guilt. The hijacker wanted to crush the plane into WTC A, so he did it. His accomplice has chosen to stay in Hamburg, so he did not that much for the crime.
And again, in the military, those who give orders are responsible for the actions of their soldiers. It´s the same here: bin Laden is also responsible for what Atta and others did. He encouraged them to committ murder in 3000+ cases. The guy on trial right now did not encourage or promote the murder, he did his little part. He surely was no leading person.
Let's try to keep God out of this. The last time that Germany invoked "Gott Mit Uns" to justify their national policy and inscribed those words on their military belt buckles, things did not turn out so well.
A rant again. Where´s the connection between the Nazi era and today´s Germany and todays trial? Nothing. Our justice system is based on the Christian values, unlike in the Nazi era.
This "Germany loves it's neighbors unlike you Old Testament Americans" is an example the the manic depressive moral values extremes I mentioned in Post #14. In exterminating the untermemchen, Germans invoked God. In treating a terrorist with kid gloves, you now invoke God.
You still haven´t told me the connection between the Nazi era and our democratic justice system. Our moral values are conclusions of the Christian religion and our experiences of the Nazi past. We will never treat a prisoner or a suspect the way the Nazis did it, and we respect the value of each life, even of those people who have did so cruel things. Even today, a Hitler would not get more than a (literally) life-long imprisonment. No matter how many deaths he may be responsible for.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with improper self-defense or punishment. You can punish someone and forgive him to the extent, that the state rejects any form of taking revenge.
Finally, yes, I disregard the "eye for eye" quote. It´s not appropriate to found a justice system on it. Every Sunday I pray the pater-noster (Our Father...), and every Sunday, I announce: "as we also have forgiven our debtors."
So what about forgiving them? It´s not that we invite them to do their awful work a second time, but at least we´re not following our emotions but look at the objective individual offense of them.
It´s the law, and if you don´t understand our view now, I have failed. My task was to present you the position of me, my government and my people, and if you still do not understand my words, I can´t help you anymore. My task is not to persuade you, I did the best I can to explain it to you.
FReegards,
Michael
A rant again. Where´s the connection between the Nazi era and today´s Germany and todays trial? Nothing.
"Gott Mit Uns" was inscribed on German belt buckles in 1914 before there were any such thing as Nazis.
My point is that claiming that you are following God while your opponent is not has been used to justify all sorts of trouble in this world.
The connection between the Nazi era and today is that Germany does not have a stable moral compass that it can look back on to provide stability for assuming any "holier than thou" attitude in the year 2003.
Depending on your age, either your father or your grandfather would have been involved in the Nazi era and the parents and grandparents have an effect on the child.
My personal opinion is that Germany, like a reformed alcoholic or like the son of an alcoholic, has reacted to the orgy of bloodshed and genocide that Germany was responsible for.
It has now gone over to the other extreme.
Just as the alcoholic or son of the alcoholic that rails against all alcohol, Germany now condemns the U.S. for exercising harsher punishments on individuals that have done nothing than, say, help murder 3,000 innocent civilians.
The son of the alcoholic who condemns the man having a glass of wine and proclaims himself to be morally superior to the wine drinker is very much the product of his father's alcoholic past.
So it is with Germany's new-found exagerated reverence for a crimminal's life that believes that 44 hours in prison for each human murdered is suitable punishment and claims a moral superiority over Americans who disagree.
Such an attitude is very much a direct connection with and a product of Germany's Nazi past.