Fossils Bridge Gap in African Mammal Evolution

Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Wed Dec 3, 2003 | Patricia Reaney

[js1138]

I would be far more disturbed in an era without QM as the underlying paradigm of physics. I do not follow th math of QM very well, but the strangeness of it meshes nicely with my worldview. I do not understand or expect ever to understand the deep down basis of existence, but I do think science is the most effective tool for whittling away at the problem.

[Elsie]

I always thought the lottery was a tax on ignorant and undereducated people...

And that is different from OTHER taxes how????

[Right Wing Professor]

Every time I post something to this effect, 'Change a bit at a time in a computer program and just SEE if it gets better', in response to the "E" mantra of random mutations changing a living creature advantageously, it seems to be absorbed into a black hole: no responses ensue....

Well, this ain't no black hole. Genetic algorithms do exactly what you say.

On the subject of computer viruses, hybris changed its name randomly to help avoid detection and restart itself if erased.

[js1138]

And that is different from OTHER taxes how????

Most taxes are on achievement and are paid by the most productive members of society.

[Elsie]

I do not understand or expect ever to understand the deep down basis of existence, but I do think science is the most effective tool for whittling away at the problem.

 

Ecclesiastes 6:10
   Whatever exists has already been named, and what man is has been known; no man can contend with one who is stronger than he.

 

Hebrews 2:10
   In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

 

Hebrews 11:6
   And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

2 Peter 3:5
   But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

[Elsie]

An algorithm is NOT a program......


(is it the ex VEEP dancing?)

[betty boop]

All living creatures, even plants neurons, have tropisms, reflexes, adaptive learning mechanisms that make life essential bets about the future. That future might be milliseconds away or it might be months. The awareness is built in, even when it is not conscious.

By saying the above, you merely confirm my observation, js1138. Which is that all living creatures display adaptive learning mechanisms that make life-essential "bets about the future" -- regardless of whether the organism is self-aware ("fully conscious") or not. Even amoebae seem to have the capability "to learn." Does a computer virus?

[Elsie]

Most taxes are on achievement and are paid by the most productive members of society.

Because the LEAST productive members of society are allowed to VOTE! To vote to STEAL the time and effort of the others.

[Phaedrus]

I would be far more disturbed in an era without QM as the underlying paradigm of physics. I do not follow th math of QM very well, but the strangeness of it meshes nicely with my worldview. I do not understand or expect ever to understand the deep down basis of existence, but I do think science is the most effective tool for whittling away at the problem.

I find myself "reacting" in a multitude of ways to this with an inclination to agree overall. I think the thrust of Western Science's initial blooming as an exploration of certain aspects of the nature of God was correct and should be regained. I think the Materialist blinders must be removed. But science is and will remain a powerful tool in our attempts to understand reality. There are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamed of in our philosophies. Or our sciences. Perhaps we can also regain some of the wonder.

[Elsie]

A computer virus most definitely, in reproducing itself, decreases its entropy

How?

[js1138]

Does a computer virus?

If you are comparing them to biological viruses, I'd say yes, there are computer viruses that display that level of learning. There are polymorphic viruses that replicate via email, grabbing bits of text from the host to include in the next round. This is why they can avoid any simple filter based on the text of the message subject. They can also modify the text of their own code to avoid detection by anti-virus scanners. This is one of the reasons anti-virus programs need such frequent updates.

I occasionally monitor the log file for the company firewall. I see continual hits by the slammer virus that was effectively countered last summer. Yet it continues to propagate.

[js1138]

I think the thrust of Western Science's initial blooming as an exploration of certain aspects of the nature of God was correct and should be regained.

I can't disagree with that, although I would certainly differ from your view at some place in the details. I am not overly concerned with silly remarks made by individual scientists, and I think parents should be ready and able to counter anything said at school that disagrees with their worldview. (In the long run, however, children will merge what their parents say with what they hear from others. This places a premium on parents developing defensible positions on things they consider important.)

[betty boop]

Some of the most fundamental principles of quantum mechanics - e.g. the Heisenberg principle, the Schrödinger equation - explicitly include first derivatives with respect to time.

Quantum events are perfectly indifferent to time, and they do not depend on the future in the sense I describe: They depend on the observer. It is the observer -- Heisenberg, Schroedinger, the experimental scientist -- who "interjects" any kind of time sense into such events. And generally, this is limited to noting the time duration of the observed quantum event.

But the concept of future I am trying to describe to you involves a teleological consideration -- a purpose, a goal. Do you suppose that quantum particles exchanging energy among themselves or a vacuum field have such any goal or purpose in view?

[betty boop]

If you are comparing them to biological viruses, I'd say yes, there are computer viruses that display that level of learning.

To whatever extent computer viruses are able to "learn," it is in the limit of the algorithm that specifies them. That is, they have this ability put into them from "outside." Therefore, they are not alive.

[js1138]

Because the LEAST productive members of society are allowed to VOTE! To vote to STEAL the time and effort of the others.

I suppose we could have a constitutional ammendment denying citizenship to the least of these...

[Elsie]

The constitution is fine, except for the fact that is not followed.

Any MORE amendments will change nothing: The till is fully open to anyone with the brass to raid it.

[Doctor Stochastic]

In the sense you describe, classical mechanics doesn't depend on the future, either. Neither do chemical or biological or geological or astronomical systems.

[Right Wing Professor]

Quantum events are perfectly indifferent to time, and they do not depend on the future in the sense I describe: They depend on the observer. It is the observer -- Heisenberg, Schroedinger, the experimental scientist -- who "interjects" any kind of time sense into such events. And generally, this is limited to noting the time duration of the observed quantum event.

Quantum mechanics determines the behavior of all matter, whether or not anyone observes it. Any chemical reaction is a time-dependent process that is governed by quantum mechanics.

Do you suppose that quantum particles exchanging energy among themselves or a vacuum field have such any goal or purpose in view

No. But nor do I think that a dividing amoeba has one either.

[Right Wing Professor]

To whatever extent computer viruses are able to "learn," it is in the limit of the algorithm that specifies them. That is, they have this ability put into them from "outside." Therefore, they are not alive.

We can assemble some viruses from their constituent molecules. Are they any more or less alive from the same virus in the wild?

[Right Wing Professor]

Because they change a random sequence of bits on a hard disk to a specific sequence.