Church doesn't think like Jesus: Survey shows only 9% of Christians have biblical worldview

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, December 3, 2003

[JohnHuang2]

Wednesday, December 3, 2003

Quote of the Day by WorkingClassFilth

[Texas_Jarhead]

Interesting BUMP

[RightlySo]

Here's my two cents on what the biblical world view really is...

www.restoredcog.org

It's a fascinating take on christianity devoid of the subtle paganisn accumulated throughout most churches' doctrine over millenia. And an awful lot of reading material.

[liberty or death]

Go to www.biblebelievers.com

[Jeff Chandler]

I'll go to your URL if you go to mine.

[Looking for Diogenes]

"Barna, who surveyed 2,033 adults in his study, found only 4 percent of the general population have a biblical worldview"

Total Survey= 2,033
Those with biblical worldview= 4% or 81 persons

"Less than one-half of one percent of those with a biblical worldview said voluntary exposure to pornography was morally acceptable"

.5% of 81 = .4 persons

I'm curious how they interviewed four-tenths of a person.

[dmanLA]

One question...

How can you be a CHRISTIAN without holding a biblical worldview?

A couple of things a Christian must believe in...

1) Jesus is the Son of the Living God and that no one will enter Heaven without Him.

2) The Bible is the Word of God.

If you do not hold a biblical worldview; you do not believe in the Word of God or Jesus. Therefore, you are not a Christian.

So, out of 2033 adults only 9% are Christian.

[rogator]

"I'm curious how they interviewed four-tenths of a person."

There is a lot more to being a Christian than this survey measures.

There is also more to conducting a meaningful survey.

[In_25_words_or_less]

This would explain the apparent decrease in Christian Zionism -- it appears many professing Christians don't read or believe their Bible.

[mitch5501]

Howdy.

Can't wait to see how this thread pans out!

"We're often more concerned with survival amidst chaos than with experiencing truth and significance."

Does anyone really think we have it harder than the first christians?

So many folks go to church but aren't doing what the Bible plainly says is the "work of God" (John 6:28-29)so we have tons of Marthas and too few who are doing that "...needfull thing,which shall not be taken..."

"If you do not hold a biblical worldview; you do not believe in the Word of God or Jesus. Therefore, you are not a Christian."

That's a pretty wide statement.

Some folks would have little idea exactly what the Biblical world view is when they first yield to Him who knows all men.

That's why we must follow after,apprehend,comprehend,understand,grasp,take hold on,enter in to...etc.

Having said that,I think I understand your sentiment.

God bless

Jesus is Lord

[In_25_words_or_less]

Among the most prevalent alternative worldviews was postmodernism . . .

Can anyone even define postmodernism?

[KeyWest]

2) The Bible is the Word of God.

The poll actually said that the Bible is accurate in all its teachings. If, as a part of the poll you asked if the earth was created in 6 literal days and the mind set of the pollers was creationist, any other answer would say the person did not believe in the accuracy of the Bible.

One thing I have found as a Born Again Believer, is how some want to exclude other believers if they do not believe just as they do, mostly in externals such as movies, dancing, drinking, etc.. Also in parts of the Bible where good men disagree on the actual meaning. If they do not agree, which are really saved? Or are they both? Or neither since God may have intended something entirely different.

The Bible is accurate in all its teaching. It all depends on who you are looking at as the teacher.

We are sinners and none of us is sinless. I am surprised that the poll did not mention gossip, which is a killer or reputations and much more harmful than any of the other sins mentioned.

I always look at the thief on the cross. He was up there because he did sin and said so, as we all do. All he did was believe in Christ and was saved.

[LadyDoc]

Barna assumes a very evangelical point of view, so most catholics wouldn't have HIS "biblical view".

For example, one of his criteria is "sharing" your faith. Most Catholics figure their lives show their faith, and like Peter's advice, won't go around shoving their religion on others, but merely, when asked, will calmly and clearly explain what they believe.

Similarly, although Catholics are saved by grace, they agree with James that you need to also respond to grace or "faith" is useless...so they might not agree that "salvation is a gift from God", not because we don't recognize this gift, but because it implies salvation is a free ride: i.e. I'm saved, so I can sit on my A*** and make fun of you people who do good deeds...Jesus's story of the last judgement where people who didn't feed the hungry etc. is closer to the Catholic's point of view...

as for the "bible being accurate in all its teachings"... Catholics feel the bible is accurate, but that there are several ways to interpret each area, and that when we interpret what a bible verse means, we have to see how the church has interpreted that for 2000 years. After all, the biblical canon was not settled for 300 years, and even the "old testament" canon was not codified by rabbis until 90 AD (Catholics use an older old testament canon, based on the greek translation of the early church. The Rabbis rejected some of these books in 90 AD, and Luthur revived the Rabbi's canon)...

So yup. I flunk...

[wildandcrazyrussian]

Only 7 percent of Protestants overall maintained a biblical worldview, according to the study. Of adults who attend mainline Protestant churches, only 2 percent shared those values. Among Catholics, less than one-half of 1 percent had a biblical worldview. The denominations that produced the highest proportions of adults with a biblical worldview were non-denominational Protestant churches, with 13 percent, Pentecostal churches, with 10 percent, and Baptist churches with 8 percent.
**********
I am not Roman Catholic (being Orthodox, which would probably suffer the same fate as the RCs in what must be an amazingly incompetent survey). Any one who says with a straight face that only 1/2% of Roman Catholics have a "biblical worldview" obviously constructed the purported definition to produce the desired results.

[Larry Lucido]

I'm curious how they interviewed four-tenths of a person.

Obviously he wasn't all there.

[Diverdogz]

Upon comparing the perspectives of those who have a biblical worldview with those who do not, the former group were 31 times less likely to accept cohabitation; 18 times less likely to endorse drunkenness; 15 times less likely to condone homosexual sex; 12 times less likely to accept profanity; and 11 times less likely to describe adultery as morally acceptable.

Interesting. More people with a Christian worldview disapprove of cohabitation than condemn homosexuality. I rarely hear a rant about unmarried men and women living together yet homos are widely condemned.

[RogueIsland]

salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned

Can someone explain this one to me? I'm sure there's more to it than how it sounds (it sounds like the doctrine of predestination to me, but I have a feeling that's not what is intended here).

[Ted]

I know literally hundreds of Pentecostals and Baptists here in Austin, and I assure you the vast majority of them would agree 100% with these six statements.

I can not imagine how 10% or less of these two groups did not agree with these statements in their poll. I question the validity of the poll based on this alone. I wonder where they conducted it, and how they went about it.

[RogueIsland]

Can anyone even define postmodernism

In postmodernism, a predominant concept is the distinction between destruction and creation. Therefore, an abundance of discourses concerning Derridaist reading may be found. If realism holds, we have to choose between subconceptualist libertarianism and textual theory.

"Language is dead," says Sartre. In a sense, the creation/destruction distinction which is a central theme postmodernism is also evident in neopostmodernism. Bataille's model of realism implies that academe is capable of truth.

Thus, the primary theme of Dietrich's[1] essay on subconceptualist libertarianism is the rubicon, and therefore the economy, of postmodernist class. Many discourses concerning the common ground between sexual identity and narrativity exist.

However, the subject is contextualised into a dialectic feminism that includes language as a totality. La Fournier[2] holds that we have to choose between realism and Derridaist reading. Therefore, Marx uses the term 'the subcultural paradigm of context' to denote the dialectic of dialectic society. Any number of theories concerning realism may be discovered.

It could be said that if Lacanist obscurity holds, we have to choose between realism and precapitalist narrative. In Ulysses, Joyce deconstructs subconceptualist libertarianism; in A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man, however, he affirms dialectic feminism.

I'm sure some of you will get the joke. It's slightly edited text from the online Postmodernism Generator

[Qwinn]

"salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned"

Ah, cute how they just couldn't help themselves from blatantly introducing a contentious interpretation that simply dismisses all Catholics as non-Christian...

/Agnostic Theological Rant On

My understanding of Catholic doctrine is that while, yes, Faith is a gift from God and Faith is required for salvation (and God gives that gift freely to anyone who truly opens their heart and asks for it, which matches my reading of the Bible AND my observational experience), it -must- also be -earned- with good works. None of the self-serving Calvinist manifest destiny "I was born saved and nothing I do or don't do can dislodge me from my rightful place in heaven, and no amount of good on your part can save you" theories.

There is nothing in that Catholic perspective that contradicts the Bible from all my readings of it. In fact, that Catholic view allows far -more- citations from the Bible as evidence to support it, not less.

But the way that sentence is phrased would deter most Catholics from agreeing with that sentence. Yes, say Catholics, God's gift is required but it -can- and -must- ALSO be earned, so someone who believed that earning salvation was required would be forced to answer that they didn't believe that sentence.

Even though I am an agnostic, I find that Catholic interpretation far far more consistent with what I read in the Bible than the supposed "biblical worldview" expoused above. I don't really have a personal dog in this fight, but I find theology very interesting and I read a lot, including the Bible.

At the VERY least, Protestants should allow that it -is- subject to legitimate differences of interpretation and that it is interpreted that way by a very significant portion of the world's Christian population, and ALL of it for more than a thousand years or so after Christ's death, until challenged by anti-authoritarians (we call those "liberals" today) who felt differently.

If salvation cannot be earned, why would Jesus tell others not to sin? Why would he command good works? Doesn't this perspective of manifest destiny and salvation is purely a function of God's predetermined will actually invalidate 50% of what Jesus said as irrelevant?

Not to mention "earning it" is rather required from a rational philosophical perspective. If we're all simply already slated for salvation or damnation and nothing we do can change that, what's the point of having free will? And if free will isn't a critical part of God's plan, what else would explain God allowing so much evil on Earth?

From my agnostic perspective, the Catholic thesis in this matter holds together pretty solidly in the face of theological inquiry. I've never seen the theological contradicitons that are created by the "salvation cannot be earned" theory explained in a way I can accept as anything other than evasion or dismissal of the "God works in mysterious ways" variety. I see Protestants slam Catholics as a "Church of men, not Jesus" all the time, but that entire notion argued by Luther and John Calvin and others that pervades most Protestant religions sounds a whole lot more like man's influence to me. *shrug*

Now not all Protestants buy into the manifest destiny line, but let's face it, the "Faith alone" vs. "Faith AND Action" argument IS the single and most profound difference between Catholicism and the bulk of the Protestant religions, and cited by many Protestants long before John Calvin was born as a reason for why Catholics are "pagans".

BUT, back to the point I brought this all up. Hey, phrasing this poll in such a way as to automatically dismiss all faithful Catholics as non-Christians who don't believe in the Bible is hardly surprising. No one ever said the propaganda war by Protestants against Catholics ever ended. You gotta love the title too. "Church doesn't think like Jesus". Hmmm. "Church". I didn't know there was a single "Church" for all Protestants. The only "Church" I'm aware of that is ever consistently described as singular is the Catholic Church. Which doesn't even rate mention in this thread - apparently we're already supposed to know they are simply clueless about what the Bible says in this matter and they don't hold a biblical worldview.

Now, if I have misinterpreted -either- Catholic or most Protestant doctrines, please feel free to inform me otherwise, but the respective positions between Catholics and Protestants on this question I learned from my reading, my education, and my instruction from those who professed to belong to several of those Christian faiths, so please cite sources as well.

Also, I'd be interested to see where in the Bible Jesus says that good works are irrelevant and have no part in salvation.

/Agnostic Theological Rant Off

Qwinn