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To: society-by-contract
The constitution was written primarily by diests such as Madison and not christians

Can you prove from his writings, that Madison was a deist?

Be interested in seeing.
Thank You,

74 posted on 11/25/2003 12:57:23 PM PST by Apogee (vade in pace)
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To: Apogee
Can you prove from his writings, that Madison was a deist?


A damn good question! I am going to Charlottesville for Thanksgiving and taking a sidetrip to Madison's home Mont Pelier in Orange, Virginia, the Friday after Thanksgiving. Do you mind if I wait to respond until after I have made this trip so I can look for books which relate specifically to his ideas on theology? This avoids quick cut and paste junk.

80 posted on 11/25/2003 1:08:58 PM PST by society-by-contract
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To: Apogee
James Madison's home, Montpelier, is located in Orange, Virginia, about 40 minutes North East of Charlottesville in Virginia's Piedmont. Browns had muted the normally lush countryside of late November. The house was owned by a DuPont Heiress subsequent to Dolly having to sell the place due to her son's mismanagement after James' death. This Dupont woman was interested in horses and women's rights and expanded the grounds to enlarge the house and built a horserace track, stables and several outbuildings. I mention this because, Paul Mellon's Trust gave 20 million toward renovating the home to its 1809 condition which was a central mass and two one floor wings with a terrace above them. There is also a website www.montpelier.org


I bought two books to help further my understanding of Madison:


1) James Madison: A Biography by Ralph Ketcham (1971 University Press of Virginia)


2) James Madison and The American Nation 1751-1836 An Encyclopedia (1994 Simon and Schuster)


Comments and excerpts from the Ketcham biography follow:


Chapter 3 is titled The College of New Jersey at Princeton and details Madison’s experience there. After earning his law degree, with an emphasis in international law, “Madison stayed there for six months following his graduation to read with Witherspoon” (page 38). I have come to learn that he studied Hebrew and ethics at that time; he did not earn any subsequent degrees except an honorary Doctor of Laws in 1787. Page 38 also contains a good description of Witherspoon. He suggested that local Presbyterian congregations retain the preponderance of power over the church hierarchy. By extension, Witherspoon’s suggestion is that decentralization might be preferred in the affairs of the state as well. Witherspoon, an emigrant from Scotland, broke with Scottish Enlightenment writer David Hume, whom he called the “infidel writer.” Witherspoon preferred “orthodox Christianity, industry and sobriety. The author comments on the intellectual milieu of the second half of the 18th century by suggesting:


“The other foundation stone of learning in Madison’s day, and of his education, was the Christian tradition. Down through his graduation from college, every one of Madison’s teachers, as far as we know, was either a clergyman, or a devoutly orthodox Christian Layman. In fact, so pervasive was Christian influence, especially in rearing children, that an education under other than Christian auspices was virtually unknown. Even the technically nonsectarian College of Philadelphia founded by Franklin gave its students training in Christian morality and was presided over by a zealous Anglican Minister. Though much of the Christian aspect of Madison’s schooling was relatively perfunctory and he seems never to have been an ardent believer himself, he nonetheless year after year undertook his studies from a Christian viewpoint. Furthermore, he never took an antireligious or even an anti-Christian stance, and he retained the respect and admiration of the devoutly orthodox young men with whom he studied at Princeton. It seems clear that he neither embraced fervently, nor rejected utterly the Christian base of his education. He accepted its tenets generally and formed his outlook of life within its worldview” (pages 46-7).


Although the author qualifies Madison’s theology as a believer, he qualifies it. I define Christians as those who accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and that he represents an *exclusive* path to salvation. (I welcome comments on this). This passage indicates that Christianity was pervasive in the institutions of higher learning around the time of the War for Independence.


My encyclopedia is an excellent resource. I will not quote at length from it, but it echoes many of Ketcham’s sentiments, in fact he even helped edit the volume.


An architectural note on Montpelier: There is what is called a Greek (pre-Christian) temple on the grounds. It is a dome, perhaps 16 feet across with eight roman Doric columns around its circumference. It suggests the importance of Greek political thought and reflects the civic architecture of ancient Greece. Why would Madison build a Greek temple instead of a Christian temple if he were a Christian? Perhaps his long relationship with Jefferson influenced his views on theology over time. Where did Madison attend service in DC? Infant baptism and adolescent confirmation do not necessarily make one a Christian. Perhaps the broad brush of deism is overstated by the commie/socialist/statist/extortionist secular humanists that have captured the (most evil) government schools or youth indoctrination centers. This has been a good learning experience. Now, I am onto Jefferson’s views on theology, but that will have to wait for another thread.

136 posted on 12/01/2003 11:43:30 AM PST by society-by-contract
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