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To: society-by-contract
By suggesting that people govern themselves, do you agree that constitutions are not effective in limiting the power of the state?

No I disagree. A constitution is only as good as the leaders who guard it, and the leaders come from among the people in our Republic. Our Constitution was fine for many decades because there was a Christian concensus and the people understood well that freedom and faith were INTIMITELY UNITED. I suggest you read the writings of Alexis de Toqueville who made these observations. The people are ultimately responsible for bad leaders and erosion of freedom. Today, we have many bad leaders, many of whom are Anti-christian bigots and secular humanists. The best safeguard against tyranny is eternal vigilance.

51 posted on 11/25/2003 11:41:08 AM PST by exmarine (sic semper tyrannis)
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To: exmarine
secular humanists

Reading the Humanist Manifesto is just like reading the Communist Manifesto. Reading the magazine The Humanist is like reading "The Communist." (if there was such a rag)

54 posted on 11/25/2003 11:45:37 AM PST by MichiganConservative (Repeal the welfare state and the 14th, 16th, and 17th Amendments.)
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To: exmarine
No I disagree. A constitution is only as good as the leaders who guard it, and the leaders come from among the people in our Republic. Our Constitution was fine for many decades because there was a Christian concensus and the people understood well that freedom and faith were INTIMITELY UNITED. I suggest you read the writings of Alexis de Toqueville who made these observations. The people are ultimately responsible for bad leaders and erosion of freedom. Today, we have many bad leaders, many of whom are Anti-christian bigots and secular humanists. The best safeguard against tyranny is eternal vigilance.


The constitution was written primarily by diests such as Madison and not christians. You indicate that "Our Constitution was fine for many decades because there was a Christian concensus", but four out of the first five presidents were deists and not christians. Additionally, the constition protected slavery for 85 years; it did not work well for those humans enslaved with its consent. Toqueville's Democracy in America is excellent! Did you happen to see the C-SPAN programs which followed his route a few years back? Toqueville noted that the *voluntarism* (read the near-absence of the state)in America was its greatest strength. I agree that today we have poor leaders, but even Jefferson supported unconstitutional acts such as the Louisanna Purchase (he wrote privately that the constitution should be amended to give Congress that authority).


Respectfully yours,


Brady

58 posted on 11/25/2003 11:55:50 AM PST by society-by-contract
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