Army Seeks Short-Term Payoff From Future Combat Systems

National Defense Magazine ^ | December 2003 | Sandra I. Erwin

[sauropod]

The electric drive could possibly simplify the drivetrain.

The common chassis automotive test rig (It had electric drive)was no simplification of the drive train. The mechanical parts worked ok, it was the damn software that kept sidelining the vehicle.

[sauropod]

"Over how much of the earth's surface can you really go 50 mph in a Main Battle Tank with out beating the crew to death like dried peas in a gourd?

You'd be surprised.

[blanknoone]

No, its not an improvement over the stryker (which used to be known as a LAV) because the stryker is designed as full capability APC. The stryker is much more expensive than 'this vehicle' (SISU) and the uparmored humvee.

The revelevent question is not whether the SISU is better or worse than the stryker, the question is it better or worse than all these uparmored humvees...and the answer is yes, its better, and yes, its cheaper.

The position you could take is that many of the humvees in Iraq be replaced by LAVs, but that is cost prohibitive. They are being replaced with M1114s...but they should be replaced with something better and cheaper (more like a SISU.)

(BTW I am not advocating buying the SISU directly, but I think the approach of cheap COTS stuff for engine/transmission and suspension is definitely the way to go to build a cheap APC...which is what the M1114 is trying to be)

[jriemer]

The electric drive could possibly simplify the drivetrain.

The common chassis automotive test rig (It had electric drive)was no simplification of the drive train. The mechanical parts worked ok, it was the damn software that kept sidelining the vehicle.

Well that just exposes my Mechanical engineering brain for all to see. I would never think to worry about lines of code in a drivetrain. Gears, motors, etc. not 1s & 0s are what I'm thinking about most of the time.

[HiJinx]

Any interest in this list, SAM?

[blanknoone]

I don't think the problem should be solved by trying to turn the unarmored humvee into an armored humvee. The mission calls for a cheap to buy (lots of 'em) and cheap to operate wheeled APC. America can (and in my opinion should) build one. I don't think the LAV is it, the LAV is a high end combat platform, and priced to match. America should design and build a cheap wheeled APC with COTS components from the truck/bus industry. In comparison, the SISU APC is cheaper then the M1114. It ain't a great APC (ala LAV/Stryker) but its a whole lot better than the M1114.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

the H2 has no military pretensions.

The traditional Hummer, star of Operation Desert Storm and numerous Join the Army commercials over the last decade or so, is now dubbed H1, at least in civilian garb. It remains a one-step-removed MilSpec one-and-a-quarter-ton truck of tremendous off-road ability and scant civilian amenities.

The Hummer folks craftily rummaged through GM's well-stocked parts bins and came up with an engine, transmission, front suspension, and brakes from the three-quarter-ton K2500 Suburban, a rear suspension (modified for longer travel and capacity) from the Tahoe, and a steering column and shifter from the TrailBlazer--and that's just for starters.

Your local dentist probably gets a yellow hummer H2, not an H1, which could conceivably be pressed into service. If this nation was mobilized for war there would be no Hummer H1's available for civilian sale. The entire manufacturer's output would be bought up by DOD.

[Ranger]

What's the short-term production potential of the APC? The fact is that something is better than nothing in the next 18 months. We've got to get armored vehicles, whether they are hummers or something else into the rear of the military convoys. Otherwise casualty counts will increase. Al Qaeda is now using video footage of humvees getting shot up in their recruiting tapes.

[blanknoone]

My understanding of the FCS is that it is a family of vehicles a la "common chassis", not just a replacement for the Abrams. The common chassis is a popular idea, and is likely to be pushed by the armor community. Whether other combat arms adopt the common chassis is up to them and the pentagon. The FCS is an armor program, specifically, the Future Combat System...ala the tank replacement. It may have a shared chassis with other systems like an artillery piece, IFV, scout vehicle or ammo carrier but they would be other programs not the FCS specifically.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Tactical to Practical on The Hitler Channel right now. Pretty good. FCS and M1 and Mattrack.

[FreedomPoster]

Does that thing have top hatches so the passengers can provide flank security / RPG grenadier watch & suppression?

[DCBryan1]

Dude, add me to the treadheads....im tired of being associated with all these "crunchies"....

19ke10 out

[blanknoone]

The production potential is extremely high...we already make thousands of commercial truck/bus engine/transmission/ suspensions which is generally the limiting factor. Design it around the most popular commercial components, then divert production from commercial to military use, and we'd could have all we need in months.
Design periods can be short (The P51 mustang went from paper to flight in 120 days)and as soon as there is a design, it could be mass manufactured very quickly with COTS.
If the armor package were designed for cheapness and easy of construction, (flat rolled armor plate) I would guess we could quickly scale to produce 1000 a month within 3 months of design acceptance. The key will be to use proven off the shelf components for the complex stuff...the engine transmission, suspension, drive train etc with minimal or no modification and to avoid the BS procurement stuff that takes years.
The alternative to designing our own would be to buy SISUs...but I really don't like buying the Euroweenies stuff.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Dude, add me to the treadheads

Roger that.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Are we going back to Armored Gun Trucks?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Untouchable

[Cannoneer No. 4]

This SISU thing is too damn big. What do you think of the Cobra?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Eagle

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I like this one. Scarab

[Cannoneer No. 4]

VBL