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House Demands Report from Army on LTC West Investigation
HASC Press Release
| 21 Nov 03
Posted on 11/21/2003 3:59:24 PM PST by O6ret
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To: AndyJackson
The problem is that you are seeking a judicial solution to what is fundamentally a political problem. Decisions about rules of engagement, treatment of captured enemy agents, etc. are fundamentally political decisions. War is, after all, the continuation of politics by other means. War and its conduct is not judicial, it is political. The military would like to leave it to a mindless process and say that the process is working so no one has to gage where they are on the political correctness meter. Congress just told them hey, this really is political, make your decision like a man and like the commissioned officer we said you are and stand up and be counted. Yours is a cynical and incorrect assessment.
The reality of political wars is that they never succeed. It seems clear that the current administration has gone out of their way to allow the soldiers in theater to make the strategic, as well as the tactical decisions. War is not the contination of policy, it is the imposition of policy, after a failed attempt at continuation. It is completely judicial; it is a punitive measure against resistance of a stated policy.
I believe you are measuring the current conflict through the prism of Vietnam, whereby everything you said would be accurate in those times. In current times, the Armed Services are not steered by the political whims of their civilian leaders, but are guided by the UCMJ in the fulfillment of their duties, as stated by the CINC.
You have joined the long line of persons unable to accept that the Military bears no resemblance to civilian society. It does not make conditions or exceptions to it's rules, in accordance with politically correct mandate. It (usually) is unconcerned about discussions like this and others as to the correctness of their actions against Col. West. Only if Bush or Rumsfeld were to insert themselves into this issue would it become political, in the manner that Congress appears ready to do, but I believe their efforts will be resisted, and no amount of positive PR on behalf of Col. West will save him from the apparent fact that he broke the code.
181
posted on
11/22/2003 8:08:14 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: William Terrell
Some of us have made it clear from the beginning that concerns about soldiers being ambushed have been highly exaggerated. It makes for a clean story and excuse, but there is just no evidence to back up that claim.
182
posted on
11/22/2003 8:12:19 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: William Terrell
They probably wouldn't.
But they also have been trained to adjust operations to counter expected ambushes and deal with that threat head on. That is what we do.
There is nothing new or unique about an ambush. The troops had a tactical advantage knowing in advance that one was being planned. The leaders of the unit, including LTC West, should have the knowledge and resources available to them to thwart the plan within the already set parameters of the mission.
He chose a different method and even though his troops may admire that, the problem will come when they have to counter a planned ambush and wonder why their new commander didn't just round up some more hajjis and scare the info out of them.
The whole episode is a breeding ground for dissent and indiscipline, the very things the rules are in place to avoid.
183
posted on
11/22/2003 8:20:46 AM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: Pukin Dog
Now that's the Jonathan I know!!!!
184
posted on
11/22/2003 8:32:22 AM PST
by
Neets
(Watch out, because what goes around, comes around. God DOES not like UGLY!)
To: O6ret
Good to hear this. Have Democrats who supposedly support the troops raised the issue?
185
posted on
11/22/2003 8:33:58 AM PST
by
doug from upland
(Why aren't the Clintons living out their remaining years on Alcatraz?)
To: Poohbah
The were using women interrogators to question the moslem official....the "offensiveness" of that probably helped the official keep his mouth shut. (offensiveness in the sense of what moslem men believe about women!)
To: Ispy4u
He chose a different method and even though his troops may admire that" Not only did his troops NOT admire that, they turned him in. Col. West's followers would like you to believe that he reported on himself, which is false. Not only that, Col. West punished his own men for their own code violations prior to his incident. But you are right to say that Col. West CHOSE another method. He had no right to choose anything outside of the rules he swore to follow.
187
posted on
11/22/2003 8:38:58 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: mdmathis6
You would be surprised how intimidating in can be to an islamist to be held and interrogated by women. Being offended is a very good road into the psyche.
188
posted on
11/22/2003 8:42:36 AM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: Pukin Dog
You are, of course, correct that his troops turned him in. I was merely making the point of how dangerous it is even if they did.
189
posted on
11/22/2003 8:43:57 AM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: MoJo2001; B4Ranch; grizzfan; Flurry; MeeknMing; GladesGuru; ZULU; montag813; blackie; ...
Bump and bookmark for later.
190
posted on
11/22/2003 8:44:04 AM PST
by
Calpernia
(Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
To: Calpernia
Time to take action for Col. West.
191
posted on
11/22/2003 8:47:36 AM PST
by
bulldogs
(support Lt. Col. West)
To: Ispy4u
Understood.
192
posted on
11/22/2003 8:49:16 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
To: Ispy4u; All
The military consciousness in vogue right when West was training had to do with dealing with Cold War sensibilities and the increasing social experimentation with the military from Liberals. I submit it has left many in the officers corps incapaple of dealing with the irrationalities of the middle east. The islamofascists don't play war like nice orderly Russians and east Europeans...they don't play chess by the rules...first they shoot you then grab your king!
Colonel West had to go back to Johnny on the spot instinct to save his men. If he had kept his mouth shut, I'm sure his men would have too. No, he honestly reported what he did to his superiors and some nincompoop decided to go on their own "righteous crusade". I wouldn't be surprised if it was even racially motivated and religiously as well!
To: All
Fine men these are!
U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) and John M. McHugh (R-NY)
I'm sending them an extra note of thanks and making sure my email dist lists knows these men are being proactive.
194
posted on
11/22/2003 8:50:36 AM PST
by
Calpernia
(Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
To: Pukin Dog
Some of us have made it clear from the beginning that concerns about soldiers being ambushed have been highly exaggerated. It makes for a clean story and excuse, but there is just no evidence to back up that claim. Making it "clear" doesn't make it true. You figure Col. West acted just because he want to screw around with the Iraqi collaberator, and have some fun? Then reported the incident to his superiors?
195
posted on
11/22/2003 8:50:58 AM PST
by
William Terrell
(Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
To: Ispy4u
Have you taken a poll of mudfeet over there to see what they think about the incident, or are you just projecting from the comfort and safety of your armchair?
196
posted on
11/22/2003 8:53:34 AM PST
by
William Terrell
(Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
To: mdmathis6
..I submit it has left many in the officers corps incapaple of dealing with the irrationalities of the middle east... What a load of unadulterated Bull@#$! LTC West is in the same point in his career as the rest of the LTC's in the Army (give or take 1-2 years). They have neatly dispached the Taliban and Saddam's regime in less than 2 years. They are more than fully capable of dealing with "irrationalities" of the middle east.
BTW training only begins, it never, ever ends.
197
posted on
11/22/2003 8:56:05 AM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: Calpernia
Thanks for the ping!
To: William Terrell
I speak with the 1SG of HHC 4th ID almost weekly, I trust he has a good feel for what's going on with the "mudfeet".
What's your source? Or are you projecting from the safety of your armchair?
199
posted on
11/22/2003 8:58:39 AM PST
by
Ispy4u
To: William Terrell
It is true, and when the entire story is told, you will know it. I dont have to 'figure' anything, and this story that Col. West went running off to report on himself, is just laughable. West may be winning the PR game at the expense of the Army, but in the end there will be no winners.
200
posted on
11/22/2003 9:01:04 AM PST
by
Pukin Dog
(Sans Reproache)
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