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Even if I grant you that...is there anything dishonorable in such ambition? In the end Joe Kennedy lost 3 sons in service to this country. That's quite a record whatever else you might say about him.

I respect that, but it says nothing about his second son's record as a President or as a naval commander. And it counter-balanced by the fact that he was an immoral crook with ties to the mob.

I am no worshipper of the Kennedys. I'm well-aware of Kennedy's personal and political flaws.

And yet you spend so much energy defending him? Why is that?

But at least he chased Jackie and Marilyn - not Hillary and Paula.

Gee, what a glowing recommendation. Favorably comparing a man to Clinton won't win you any points here.

At least he was a terrific speaker and an inspiration to an entire generation of young people.

And this "inspiration" becomes less and less relevant as that generation ages. I'm told that as a football coach Jim Fassel is an inspiration to his players. What does that get him?

At least he knew the facts and had the courage to execute his policies - and to change direction when he felt he'd made a mistake.

The point is not that he did nothing while in office. The point is that he was forced "to change direction" a lot more often than he should have. He was not an inactive president. Just an ineffective one.

Interesting thread...allow me a somewhat off topic comment for your interest..History Channel has severl good programs this week abotu the Kennedys...last night they were talking about Joe, Jr.the eldest son who died in Europe in WW II..and in now waywas it denigrating his heroism, or his service..the point the show raised was that Joe volunteered for the risky mission , according to his own letters, primarily because he felt that he had to compete with JFK's Navy Cross...

I respect that, but it says nothing about his second son's record as a President or as a naval commander. And it counter-balanced by the fact that he was an immoral crook with ties to the mob

MRCD has some very damaging things to say about Kennedy's war record. I hear some of them for the first time so I can't comment but - in general - war is a difficult arena and many unpredictable things happen for which men are often credited of blamed unjustly.

The Navy gave the man medals which you say were corruptly purchased. So be it.

Government has had intimate connections with the mob at least since WWII. I'd have to see a lot more evidence to believe that made Kennedy corrupt.

Immoral? Because he slept around? Because he recognized the hard Machiavellian realities of the world and was willing to act accordingly? Maybe in your book. Not in mine.

And yet you spend so much energy defending him? Why is that?

You've got to be kidding to make such a childish remark.

I see the man's flaws so I don't worship him.
I see the man's strengh's which I admire.
On balance, I have great respect for him - so I defend him.

I'm an adult and have adult opinions.

Gee, what a glowing recommendation. Favorably comparing a man to Clinton won't win you any points here.

If you don't yield to the charms of Nefertiti or Cleopatra are you a man at all?

And this "inspiration" becomes less and less relevant as that generation ages.

It's often been remarked that American culture is becoming increasingly vulgar - as your remark demonstrates.

The point is that he was forced "to change direction" a lot more often than he should have. He was not an inactive president. Just an ineffective one.

And you and those who think like you are the best judge of that?

I don't think so. The man was a great leader and, like all such, his legacy will be discussed and disputes for a long, long time.