Bush says Muslims and Christians Worship Same God

CNN | 11/20/03

[truthandlife]

I was watching the Tony Blair and President Bush press conference and an American reporter asked a question on the lines of do you believe Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

President Bush said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God!!!!

[familyofman]

There are some days that I just really enjoy being a non-believer in any god. That way I can sit back & chuckle over the discussion of who's god is better, or the definition of your god(s) vs their god(s).

[SupplySider]

Another analogy would be that the two men were both sons of the loving father. One son, having a better memory and soft heart, remembers his father accurately. The other son, born with a poorer memory and posessing a hard heart from cruel life experiences, remembers his father differently and less accurately.

[deport]

Sun is shining in NE Ohio, that means the bike needs to be "worked out" - she really gets cranky when left unused on a great day.

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Makes much sense to me.... It's beautiful here today, sun out, 69 degrees, just a breeze, 40%rh.... I think I'll go do the same and get some road miles in on the bike also

[carton253]

That's not the point I am making at all...but I think you know it...

I'm not talking about who has the correct theology, who got it first, who is right, or who is wrong.

Muslims believe that the revelation from God was corrupted in the hands of both Jews and Christians...that's why God had to redeliver the revelation to Mohommad. That's why there is an Islam and a Qu'ran. Whether Mohommad is right or not is not the issue I am making.

That Muhammad knowledge was second hand, partially based on the apocryphas circulating in Arab world of his time. That the archeological findings (like Dead Sea scrolls) confirm the basic authenticity of the Jewish and Christian scriptural traditions. Do not take my word, see for yourself - go to the library (I did).

Again, that is not the point I a making. What do the Muslims believe about the Qu'ran, about Islam, and about Mohammad? The believe that Christians and Jews and Muslims all worship the same God... it's just the Christians and the Jews are not quite worshipping him in truth. Only Islam is the truth.

Let's recap... my point has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong or even if the Muslim argument makes sense. My point is that to a Muslim, Islam is the pure, final, and last revelation of the God of Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus.

[milan]

You won't be chuckling in a few years.

[joyful1]

I bought more gold stocks as a result of Bush's opinion about the god of Islam.

[milan]

So, are you taking the Islamic side of the issue. You are telling us the Islamic belief. That is not the Christian belief. What muslims believe is of no consequence to me personally, and probably not to a good many on this thread.

[Frapster]

Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law...

Clearly people can demonstrate the character and nature of the one in whose image they were created without being a follower of him. That does not secure their place in eternity - it merely signifies the hand by which they were created.

[newgeezer]

Sure it does... you just missed the forest for the trees.

Really? Thanks so much for that.

If your "forest" is that we both worship the God of Abraham, I didn't miss it. Perhaps you missed where Islam replaced the God of Abraham with someone else.

Thus, Islam worships a different god.

Now, if I truly missed your forest, perhaps you can find enough kindness in your religious heart to spell it out for me.

[Frapster]

I think the best perspective is one that's already been stated in one way or another in this thread. The Jews worship the God of Abraham who they call Allah. However, they refuse to accept God on his terms but define him on thier own terms with their own agenda. I agree - more Christians should take note for 'whatever is not of faith is sin'.

[A. Pole]

My point is that to a Muslim, Islam is the pure, final, and last revelation of the God of Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus.

To a Muslim, yes. So to a Marxist, the works of Marx, Lenin etc ... are the final word on Truth? So what?

People who are in error, believe that they are right. Otherwise they would not be in error.

[armydoc]

"As someone raised Catholic, I always beleived that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. I still do."

Then how do you explain John 5:23 "He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (NKJ)

Read the Gospel of John. Focus on the words of Jesus. The whole point is JESUS HIMSELF. There is NO OTHER WAY. There are NO OTHER PATHS, NO ALTERNATIVES. Christianity is not a "religion", it is faith in a PERSON. It does sound unfair, doesn't it? It's been called the "scandal of exclusivity". Believe what you will, but please, if you're not going to profess this simple truth of the Gospel, don't call yourself a Christian.

I'm very disappointed that President Bush didn't take this opportunity to clearly profess the Faith. Muslims obviously don't believe we worship the same God. You don't make it a goal to kill your spiritual brethren.

[E Rocc]

An atheist doesn't believe in gods. An agnostic believes in gods.

Atheism is a very specific belief that there is no God.

Agnosticm is uncertainty, perhaps combined with a belief that if God exists we are intentionally meant to be unsure (my own belief). It covers a wide range. If either a Cardinal in the Vatican or a militant atheist has the slightest doubts about the existance or non-existance of God (respectively), then both are, technically speaking, "agnostics".

-Eric

[SupplySider]

If I may jump in, you seem to be saying that familyofman will burn in hell because he does not hold what you think are the correct thoughts in his mind, and/or feelings in his heart about God. It is just possible that his heart is purer and his mind is clearer and that he is actually closer to God than you or me. I don't think God, who is just, would torture him eternally for being a bit off on the wording.

[netman]

Of all the things to focus on, you choose this, falling into the trap of the idiot reporter who asked that intentionally divisive question

You mean decisive question don't you??.

If Mr. Bush believes that Christians and Muslims are praying to the same God,he can know nothing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ as explained in the Bible.

If you don't understand the Gospel, you can't be a Christian or saved.

The fact that Muslims and other heathen religions can't abide is that Jesus Christ is GOD.

Joh 3:13

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Which is in heaven. This is a very remarkable expression. Jesus, the Son of man, was then bodily on earth conversing with Nicodemus; yet he declares that he is at the same time in heaven. This can be understood only as referring to the fact that he had two natures--that his divine nature was in heaven, and his human nature on earth.

[agrace]

Muslims do claim that the text of the Tanakh and the New Testament have been distorted or corrupted but I have never read a convincing display of evidence to back it up. Considering the historical evidence we have at our disposal, it actually defies logic, if you think about it.

Did Mohammed say the Bible was altered, and if so, on what did he base his claim? Is there any proof? If one is to believe that a text has been altered, it stands to reason that the one making the claim should have seen an original on which to base his claim. Why are there no originals or remnants of originals? How do we know what was omitted/altered? Islam should have some idea of the original content. Could we be pointed to any links or sources to more specifically define the claim?

Also, who did the omitting/altering? What party was served by omitting/altering parts of the Bible? For example, if omissions/alterations were done by the Jews, you'd think that they would paint themselves in a more favorable historical light. But as it stands today, Israel was a mostly foolish, bumbling, stubborn, disobedient nation, most often more interested in doing their own thing rather than what Jehovah asked of them, and were often punished harshly and humiliatingly for their behavior. Not a pretty picture of God's chosen. And if it were, say, the early Christians who altered the Bible, one would think they maybe would have added some more specific references to Christ as Messiah in the OT to further validate their claim, rather than have to struggle so strenuously with what the world considers to be obscure prophecies.

Which brings up another problem. If the text was altered or omissions made, WHEN was it done? You'd think that if it was done at any point in recorded history, there would be some general outcry about it, or copies or at least fragments of originals would still be around somewhere. How would it be possible to alter every single copy of scripture without leaving any original behind and without causing some recordable issue surrounding it? And if it were done before widespread copies were available, like in ancient Hebrew times when it was first written down, why would God wait so long to bring someone (Mohammed/Islam) to expose the truth - thousands of years after?

For example - the Qumran scrolls. The copies found there are remarkably accurate to those books of the OT we have today. Take for instance the Isaiah scroll - it is said to be virtually identical, save a couple miscellaneous characters. These scrolls were copied, at the latest, 2000 years ago. And they are the same as what we have today. Mohammed and the birth of Islam came between. So how is it possible that they have been altered?

And one more question - if both the OT and the NT are altered, that calls for a much wider conspiracy. Either there were two separate events - first, the early altering of the OT, with no trace of original left for us, and a later altering of the NT, with again no trace of original or historical outcry, a much harder feat since recorded history was relatively sophisticated by then. Or there was one altering event, which is impossible, considering the Qumran scrolls.

My conclusion is that belief in their alteration is much harder than belief in their continual accuracy, considering the historical basis and documented proof we have to use as evidence.

[carton253]

So, are you taking the Islamic side of the issue.

Don't be so obtuse...

You are telling us the Islamic belief.

So?

That is not the Christian belief.

No? Really...

What muslims believe is of no consequence to me personally, and probably not to a good many on this thread.

Well, sorry to hear that. Have a nice day.

[Marysecretary]

Yes, only one God and he's not the God of the Muslims. Allah is a made up god, not a true one. There's a big difference. The God of the Jews and Christians does not tell people to fly planes into buildings and blow up banks, mosques, etc. President Bush needs to stop pushing this button.

[newgeezer]

Furthermore (just in case it wasn't clear in my previous post to you), the devoted Muslim surely must say the Christians replaced his god of Abraham (Allah) with a false, polytheistic god (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Any Muslim who says we all worship the same god is surely a casual (, naive, or uninformed) Muslim, much like the Christian who honestly believes the same thing.

They are not the same God. One is of the Koran; the other, of the Bible.

[Marysecretary]

Wrong. The god of the muslims is not a true god. Allah was made up by Mohammed from a moon god. As I said in another post, the God of the Jews and Christians do not fly planes into buildings to kill thousands of people. You need to understand the differences between us and the Muslims.