libertarians Fight Patriot Act

Newsday ^ | November 18, 2003 | Tom Brune

[Dr. Marten]

"It is the ones who say our rights are being threatenend who need to explain which rights have been abridged"

Actually, I am of the opinion that those who don't understand, need to do their own homework. Yes, it could be looked at as a cop out, but if you really want to know more about the "Patriot Act", read it. Don't ask someone to narrate it.

[MEG33]

Thank you for enlightening me about why we should all be very concerned.

[Dr. Marten]

It is not the "Patriot Act" itself that is bad, it's the little ammendments that are attached to it. (You know, those little things that Congressmen and Senators never read when passing legislation)

Yes, the "Patriot Act" does have sunset clauses...just like those affecting the "Assault Riffle" ban. However, sunset clauses are just an easy way out of the hot box for the politicians that allowed them to go forth in the first place. What good are they if the next administration (or current one) intercede and block them from falling off the books?

[Cultural Jihad]

... conservative activist Janine Hansen is the first to say she is no Democrat or liberal, but she also complains the Bush administration has ...

Did socialist Soros pay for this so-called 'news article'?

[Dr. Marten]

"Thank you for enlightening me about why we should all be very concerned"

Enlighten yourself, the effects are far more reaching. :)

[mysterio]

The Libertarian party is a joke that won't be voting Republican again any time soon. I personally think Republicans are the jokesters. You guys had me convinced in the 90s that you really supported preserving freedom and smaller government. I think we've all gotten the punchline. Libertarians are actually quite a bit like Republicans. The difference is that we support liberty and smaller government even when Democrats aren't in power.

[Cultural Jihad]

Muggers and the People's Liberation Army are all in favor of their liberties and a smaller Federal government, too, but we don't accord them the mantle of conservatism on that account.

[Fred Mertz]

You wouldn't know what conservatism is if it knocked on your door and demanded your library card and every web site you visited lately.

You should review Algore's speech from about a fortnight ago.

[mysterio]

So, we can only preserve the Bill of Rights if there's not anyone out there who could hurt us? I'm not willing to wait on that. The ten Amendments are very straightforward. There's no asterick next to each saying "except to catch drug dealers and terrorists." No, I'm afraid the only ways to repeal or modify Constitutional rights is to pass an Amendment or declare martial law. Any federal gun law is unconstitutional. Any modification of search and seizure at the federal level is unconstitutional. There is no situation that makes it acceptable to sidestep the Constitution. And yes, I argued the same under the socialist Clinton regime. I knew they were in the wrong setting dangerous precedents that future generations will pay for dearly. Clinton was very cavalier about throwing the Constitution to the wind. Unfortunately, your side is proving itself proficient at doing the same.

[Cultural Jihad]

You should review Algore's speech from about a fortnight ago.

Ah, the one who claimed that the Dixie Chicks have a 1st Amendment right to other people's wallets? No thanks.

[Cultural Jihad]

Where is the national headquarters of the L.P.? Neverland Ranch?

[MEG33]

In the war against terror ,I believe there is no our side and your side.

[mysterio]

America is not no knock searches, roving wiretaps, holding individuals without charges, snooping into library records, internet spying, seizing property from the accused, drug raids in our schools, coercing judges into warrants, and stepping around a Constitution that interferes with any of the above. So don't tell me that they are protecting America. Destruction of our Constitution only completes the work that the terrorists have done.

No "our side and your side?" You prove it by being blind to what your side does. People would be screaming bloody murder on here if Janet Reno proposed this legeslation. I would be here doing the same. But now it's Ashcroft. I'm here. Where are you?

[11B3]

The only side now is America, or anti-American if you're a Democrat. Republican/Libertarian is moot. Conservatives - regardless of party affiliation - believe in a smaller, less intrusive, less expensive government, that actively defends the nation's interests abroad while also protecting it from outside invasion. We're a capitalist nation, not a nanny state socialistic one (supposedly). The Feds need to get the hell out of our way, stop giving away our nation's technical and military advantages to other nations in the feel-good free trade BS, and let the inventive nature of Americans tackle the problems that this nation faces without tying our hands behind our back through treaties we have no say in.

Yes, you can see I'm not exactly enamored with the current batch of Republicans and their actions. But I believe that my views are pretty much mainstream as a conservative - it's too bad that our party doesn't stay in touch with what the rank-and-file believe in.

[mysterio]

No, the real tragedy is that everyone abandons their dream of small, less intrusive government just to stick with this party. I'll be throwing my vote away voting against our current two party oligarchy boondoggle from now on.

[11B3]

You are 100% correct in that the WOsD has eroded more of our Constitutional rights than any other program. Many in here who criticise the LP as merely 'dopers' fail to see that the WOsD is also being used as a tool to erode our 2nd Amendment rights. The two are combined.

The Patriot Act is merely an extension of tyranny by the DoJ that began under Hoover. Granted, we are at war, and it is impossible to rely upon the citizens to actually take their responsibilities as Americans in helping to defend the nation. Especially when we have so many millions who are illegally here and unassimilated. During WWII, Americans sacrificed unbelieveably in comparison with the current level of governmental involvement in our daily lives. Rationing? Travel restrictions? Concentration camps? Our selfishness shows sometimes.

[Cultural Jihad]

Try www.greenparty.org for fellow moral-liberals who whine about the Patriot Act and the Republican Party.

[11B3]

It's a shame that some real conservatives don't start a takeover of the Republican party instead of the pussies who run the party today.

I believe in President Bush as a man - his ideals, his work ethic, his honesty. I don't, however, trust those like Rove whose agenda is hidden for a reason while filtering the information the president gets. That is dangerous to all of us. I think the president is truly conservative, but gets poor advice from too many suckup yes men who are afraid of those like Rove.

[mysterio]

No, that's not quite right. I am not a socialist. I believe in freedom and civil liberty. I believe that our Constitution is the most important foundation of our political system. I believe that the Constitution restricts government power, and rightfully so. Basically, I believe most of what your party claims to believe. Except for the fact that I really do believe it. I don't just say I believe in these things to gain power.

[mysterio]

I believe that President Bush is a good person. I think that he speaks honestly and from the heart. Unfortunately, I think he fails to see the long term implications of legislation such as the Patriot act.