WEST: Court martial of US officer in Iraq

aljazeera.net ^ | Tuesday 18 November 2003, 13:08 Makka Time, 10:08 GMT

[Experiment 6-2-6]

The best interrogator the Germans ever had in WW2 didn't even raise his voice at a prisoner, let alone shoot any prisoners. He was remarkably effective. He'd probably have you blabbing everything you know in about three hours.

Did you read THE INTERROGATOR? I'm assuming you're referencing Hanns Joachim Scharff? Great book, by the way, I thinks your right 'bout the problems with obtaining info.

That aside, it comes down to who has the better pr campaign. The IG or (the much maligned) Col. West. Col. West gets the sympathy vote hands down. Unless you or the IG starts showing the hypocrisy shown by his punishment for like acts, it becomes a moot point.

[Gunrunner2]

>>I have NEVER heard of a field-grade officer getting Article 15'd. <<

Ever hear of an E-8 getting one?

I have. . .for both.

DWI's, and other such stuff. Happens, but not usually as often as your average private because they are, generally speaking, more mature and with better judgment. Privates may get an Article 15 and recover, a Company Grade officer or Field Grade officer cannot.

[Conspiracy Guy]

My mother always said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything." So Poohbah, " ".

[Poohbah]

Well, I see you're following my father's advice: "It is better to keep silent, and be merely thought to be a fool, than to speak and remove all remaining doubt."

[Poohbah]

In every case I know of involving a staff NCO or a commissioned officer where Private Smuckatelli would get NJP, it was referred to a special court martial by the guy's CO.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Go through your rocks elsewhere. You are irrelevent here.

[Conspiracy Guy]

through = throw. Sheesh.

[Poohbah]

You are irrelevent here.

The facts--all of the facts, not just what LTC West deigned to tell you in his pre-hearing spinfest--will come out at trial.

When that happens, your lunch menu options will consist of Crow Cordon Bleu, baked crow, Kentucky Fried Crow, teriyaki crow, blackened crow, Crow Maryland, crow cacciatore, crow l'orange, Crow Marengo...I think you get the picture.

[Conspiracy Guy]

You keep suggesting that everyone else who is Pro West wait and see what comes out. Then you proclaim him guilty. You are a true hypocrite. You also can't read. I haven't seen a soul say that West did nothing. I've seen a lot of people who right or wrong think it was justified. No crow will be eaten here for hoping that he gets through this. Why don't you go bash Kobe for a while.

[MeekOneGOP]

In this case, it truly doesn't 'fit'. They must Acquit ! ...

[OldSmaj]

The facts--all of the facts, not just what LTC West deigned to tell you...

Are you privy to some information that has not been released to us, the great unwashed?

If so, then enlighten us.

While I do not have the knee-jerk reaction to this that some others appear to have, I certainly am aware of the provisions in the UCMJ for "extenuating and mitigating circumstances".

Might this be a case for the presentation of such?

No blind, unreasoning support for the LTC on my part, just a recognition, based upon a year or two of experience, that things in a combat situation are usually not cut and dried, and IG investigations are usually biased one way or the other. Personally, I think the office of the Inspector General is populated with political panderers, but hey, what do I know?

I think in the end, that LTC West will be severely reprimanded for his actions, but the aformentioned "extenuating and mitigating circumstances" will be brought to play, which will certainly tend to lessen the impact of the charges.

True justice demands no less.

And after reading some of LTC West's comments, I think he would agree and would accept a reprimand, if such came with an assurance of an Honorable Retirement.

They could even deny him the Meritorious Service Medal or something else equally outrageous.

In any event, I really don't think he's going to Leavenworth.

We shall see.

[Gunrunner2]

>>In every case I know of involving a staff NCO or a commissioned officer where Private Smuckatelli would get NJP, it was referred to a special court martial by the guy's CO. <<

That was not what you originally said.

You made a declarative statement that Field Grade officers do not get 15's. And your proof? "Every case that I know of. . ."

That's pretty darned weak, and you are usually better than that. Another cup of coffee for ya, Poo, I think you need it.

Now, if you originally said, "In my experience, I know of no. . .", that would be acceptable.

Bye.

[NMFXSTC]

Dummy...it's called psycho-ops and is indeed lawful and encouraged.

Exactly what comabt action have you been involved in?

[Conspiracy Guy]

bttt

[Publius6961]

I predict.

If this officer is given any punishment whatsoever, within the following week twice as many Americans and civilians will die than in the previous month.

Some people just won't get it.
There are cultural differences.
Not all cultures are of equal value.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Lt. Col. West, bump!

FN's Steve Harrigan is doing a fine job of reporting on the trial ~ ending his reports yesterday with a description of LTC West's Soldiers in tears following the good Col's comment about being willing to lay down his life for his troops.

In this day, in this war, with this enemy, the Army would be suicidal to make a bad example of LTC West! They may as well replace Uncle Sam with Neville Chamberlain on the recruiting posters. People will hear the slogan "An Army of ONE" and say, "no wonder."

[Publius6961]

The old "rules are the ends" argument again?

For you, and people like you, I wish the following fate: find yourself in a burning building, and faced with a sign reading: Entrance Only. Not an exit!.

Twit!

[archy]

In every case I know of involving a staff NCO or a commissioned officer where Private Smuckatelli would get NJP, it was referred to a special court martial by the guy's CO.

Unless, of course he was a ringknocker and his fellow buddies from the West Point Protective and Benevolence Association made the problem go away entirely. Everything from DUIs and sexual harassment to rape and drug smuggling.

-archy-/-

[archy]

During approach from the air, Capt. Abizaid allegedly put a .45 to the head of the Air Force pilot who initially would not fly over the drop zone.

I know a couple Rangers who jumped in Grenada, and this story is pure 100% Grade-A BS.

So you're saying that SFC Larry Keith Price from Delta is a liar? I'll be glad to pass your opinion along....

-archy-/-

[verity]

Perhaps we need a modicum of perspective on this.

The GCM Convening Authority is required, by law, to ascertain whether or not the allegation of a violation of the UCMJ has substance.
An Article 32 [UCMJ]Investigation thus has been ordered to determine that.
IF there is a Court Martial, he can be found either Guilty or Not Guilty.
IF he is found guilty, the punishment could be severe or very minor.

If the GCMCA decided not to pursue this, he would be in violation of the UCMJ.