Governor Seeks New Trial Over Brain Damaged Woman's Wishes

Tampa Bay Online ^ | November 19, 2003 | Vickie Chachere

[sweetliberty]

Gov. Jeb Bush fired a volley of legal shots Wednesday at the husband of a brain damaged woman who is at the center of a right to die case, saying there needs to be a jury trial on whether Terri Schiavo wanted to be kept alive artificially. The governor also sought to remove Pinellas Circuit Court Judge W. Douglas Baird from hearing the constitutionality of the new law enacted to keep Terri Schiavo alive after her feeding tube was removed last month. In yet a third legal filing, the governor argues that Terri Schiavo's rights under the Florida Constitution are being protected, not violated.

Terri Schiavo went for six days without food and water after her husband Michael Schiavo removed her feeding tube. Florida lawmakers and Bush intervened, enacting a hastily drawn law that allowed the governor to order the feeding tube be reinserted.

Michael Schiavo has challenging the constitutionality of the governor's action. He contends his wife had said she did not want to be kept alive artificially before she suffered severe brain damage in 1990. Doctors have ruled she has been in a persistent vegetative state since, but her parents believe she is aware of her surroundings and could be rehabilitated.

Bush's attorney Ken Connor said a jury has to establish what Terri Schiavo's wishes were before a court can decide whether her private health care wishes were violated.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, could not immediately be reached for comment.

[nicmarlo]

I think he is scum, but he might not have violated any explicit rules of behaviour. Humanity, perhaps.

He is scum and he has definitely violated laws of humanity, which God only knows how many. In due time, Felos will pay. If not now, Judgment Day.

[TaxRelief]

I think Felos is insane. He believes he has a direct link with God and prophetic powers.

I predict that Felos will end up the asylum before too long.

[supercat]

What "proof" do we have that he actually "knows" anything? This would be a logical assumption/likelihood, but, right now, that's all the charge could be.

Well, there's something downright fishy about the fact that Felos is or has been paid by both Michael and Terri, and the fact that he has some well-established motives of his own related to this case. I would think that there are some pretty abundantly clear conflicts of interest, and lawyers are not supposed to accept clients when doing so would create such conflicts.

[supercat]

I think he is scum, but he might not have violated any explicit rules of behaviour.

There are both laws and bar association rules that forbid lawyers from entering into cases which would pose certain conflicts of interest. For Felos to be taking Terri's money in the presence of such conflicts of interest is illegal, though unfortunately Judge Greer has willingly to date turned a blind eye to such conflicts.

[KDubRN]

What kind of team does the GAL have working with him -- especially, what medical people does he have working with him on the medical records, pointing meaningful info out to him, explaining implications?

That I don't know. I do know he has access to sealed records. His report is due out in a few days. Pray his eyes are opened and heart softened to Terri's needs.

[bvw]

If I was XO of that sub in the movie where Ronald Reagan left Nancy's husband behind to die for the sake of saving his ship, I would have ...

I don't know. I've thought about that a number of times. It seems to me there would be some way to take some action beyond scooting away and leaving the man to die --- if it were real life. Movies are but movies. While I found the sub captains action callous, in the context of the movie -- at least the writers suggested by the plot and dialogue it was the right thing to be done.

And I don't know why CP feels compelled to raise a voice for death against the voices here calling for life! Not that I don't understand the view "She's not human any more, just a vegetable. Help her die quick, so we have no more aggravation and bother from that quarter."

I think that is a view the callous or spiritually-ignorant have. I've heard it a number of times. What I don't quite grasp is why CP seems compelled to press that callous point here.

What is the bother to him that we argue for her life?

A great bother to him it is, or so seems. Yet what does he make of our arguments, does he give any lfe to them -- by that I mean, seek to understand or honor our arguments for her life? No, as far as I know, no he has not.

He ignores the spirit of our arguments, and dwells only on that mechanical aspect of them that -- to him -- seems actionable for libel or slander, or discountable for foolishness.

So like his regard for Terri is his regard for the other side of an argument. He's a half-man, at least in terms of making arguments that have real vim and vigor. Arguing with him is like fly-fishing for dead trout.

[KDubRN]

MS is worse. Medical definition of MS

Michael Schiavo
Profile of a Sociopath

A number of mind-manipulating cult leaders may exhibit many of the behavioral characteristics of a sociopath--an outstanding ability to charm and seduce followers. Since they appear apparently normal, they are not easily recognizable as deviant or disturbed. Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis, it is important to be able to recognize the personality type in order to avoid further abuse. These traits also apply to a one-on-one cultic relationship

Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to try and confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.


Story telling could be made up situations of abuse that allegedly happened in childhood that would cause them to "not understand" a specific situation that their intended victim has addressed. Or to evoke pity or empathy from their victim. It's all about them. Narcissistic. The more Narcississtic, the more I lean towards sociopathic. Sociopaths and Psychopaths have low tolerance to alcohol. Though not currently using, their intolerance is an issue and a signal that something is wrong with the brain. Displayed in their behavior when exposed to drink or drugs. Crisis. They are always in crisis or creating a crisis for others, as displayed by Michael Schiavo, being the long suffering spouse of Terri. Spending every dime of Terri's Lawsuit money to fight to put her to death. He does so with malice and intent. It's all about HIM. Indeed, there is no crisis for him at all, the crisis is created for his victim. He has displayed this tendancy over and over again, while being the main care giver for his wife Terri. Fourteen years of crisis created by Michael Schiavo should be an alert to all concerned.

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.



Constant refusal to address the medical or personal needs of his wife indeed shows Michaels hostility towards his wife, Terri. Terri is his means to an end. She is dominated by Michael every day and in every way. He humiliates her over and over again. Publicly and privately, Terri is Michaels punching bag. He brutally enforces inadequate care upon her while the public, attorney's and Judges look on. Now that Michael has Terri in a vulnerable position, his abuse of her would be constant with no let up.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc.
Creates an us-versus-them mentality.



Michael displays this grandiose behavior as well. He is the "Leader for Terri's right to die". It is an us vs them mentality and he shows this everyday. Every moment of the day. Except of course, when he indulges himself in his sexual pleasures.

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities.
Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.
Michael is a pathological liar. Nothing he says should be considered reputable. No woman or man, at the tender and youthful age of 27 would talk in length and not at all about their wish to not be on life support. Any ICU nurse would back me on this. I had extensive experience in a hospital setting for several years and it simply NEVER happened.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


Not even the Law is standing in the way of Michael's insistence on killing his wife. He botched the job the first time around, and the State has actively allowed him to continue the brutality and to carry out this brutality in public. Clearly, there is no end to his abuse of his victim, Terri, his wife.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive.
Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person.
Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

The proof of a sociopath's lack of feelings is directly related to the brutality he shows towards his victim. He cannot feel anything and his victim suffers the worst abuse because he cannot feel anything. The closest a sociopath can get to "true" feelings is thru the reaction of his victim. Sadly, this would cause him to be even more brutal to his victim because their suffering is the closest he can get to emotion or feelings.

Incapacity for Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal

This is part of the create a crisis the sociopath inflicts on his wife, friends or family members.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse.
When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.

This would apply to the assault Michael carried out against his wife, Terri, 14 years ago and for which she is still suffering. A Sociopath can explode in rage when all his antics simply no longer work against his intended victim. Most victims are accustomed to their rantings and may not see the signal that "this" rage is the one that will kill them. The victim does not always see their demise as a possibility, because they are generally adept at dealing with them specifically if they have done so with success in the past. The rage can happen for no apparent reason as they are good at turning it on and off. Sociopaths often feign a lack of memory, when in fact, what they are telling you is they lack feelings. Emotions, accountability, conscience or remorse. I don't remember carries and explains a multitude of sins and allows the sociopath off the hook for this slight and extreme memory lapse. This is a ploy used by an American sociopath. Europeans simply will not tolerate this or excuse it.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

This is critical information. Because they cannot feel and lack accountability, there isn't a sociopath who refrains from acting up while young. This includes runaways. Anything to cause the most pain or grief to their family members and parents.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.

There is a physical reason why a sociopath is promiscuous. They are capable of having sex 24/7. Yes, you read me correctly. Excess in sex is just another manifestation of sociopathy. The reason is that sociopaths have a heightened sence of feeling in their genitalia. This is the one and only thing they can "feel" and in abundance. This is why they have affairs all over the place, and can have up to 10+ lovers a day. Sexual performance can go on and on or their performance can be of relative shortness, but with great frequency Always capable and willing. They may tell their wife or lover that they are unable to perform again, but, in reality, they can and are ready to have sex with another contact.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam.






Other Related Qualities:



Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

* The above Sociopathic traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.




H. Cleckley's book, Mask of Sanity, was one of the many books I read when training for expertise on sociopathic/psychopathic behavior. It is a "common" disorder and there are female sociopaths, like Elaine Warner, but mostly, it is a male affliction. I also read R. Hare, but those concepts tend to be over the head of most individuals unless of course your a psychiatrist and are familiar with the terminology. Cleckley's book is used extensively in the training of FBI Profilers. It is available ONLY thru the Library of Congress and I suggest you read it.

[sport]

As far as I am concerned, the sooner the better.

[cyn]

the GAL "holds her hand, talks to her ..." (post #202)

"Pray his eyes are opened and heart softened to Terri's needs."

We will continue to do that, thanks again for the input.

Prayers also continue to all of you there on the front lines of Terri's fight -- take care, stay well. I pray for the knowledge, wisdom, insight, discernment, courage, strength, safety, and PEACE of everyone working to free Terri from her death sentence. May we all sleep well tonight.

[tutstar]

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0038/SEC10.HTM&Title=-%3E2003-%3ECh0038-%3ESection%2010

38.10 Disqualification of judge for prejudice; application; affidavits; etc.--Whenever a party to any action or proceeding makes and files an affidavit stating fear that he or she will not receive a fair trial in the court where the suit is pending on account of the prejudice of the judge of that court against the applicant or in favor of the adverse party, the judge shall proceed no further, but another judge shall be designated in the manner prescribed by the laws of this state for the substitution of judges for the trial of causes in which the presiding judge is disqualified. Every such affidavit shall state the facts and the reasons for the belief that any such bias or prejudice exists and shall be accompanied by a certificate of counsel of record that such affidavit and application are made in good faith. However, when any party to any action has suggested the disqualification of a trial judge and an order has been made admitting the disqualification of such judge and another judge has been assigned and transferred to act in lieu of the judge so held to be disqualified, the judge so assigned and transferred is not disqualified on account of alleged prejudice against the party making the suggestion in the first instance, or in favor of the adverse party, unless such judge admits and holds that it is then a fact that he or she does not stand fair and impartial between the parties. If such judge holds, rules, and adjudges that he or she does stand fair and impartial as between the parties and their respective interests, he or she shall cause such ruling to be entered on the minutes of the court and shall proceed to preside as judge in the pending cause. The ruling of such judge may be assigned as error and may be reviewed as are other rulings of the trial court.

History.--s. 4, ch. 7852, 1919; RGS 2674; s. 1, ch. 9276, 1923; CGL 4341; s. 3, ch. 83-260; s. 212, ch. 95-147.


OK_______Pat Anderson has already said she believes Judge Greer wants Terri to die (not exact words)

[tutstar]

put my 2cents first this time....
this statute mentions 'removal' and also 'impeachment' ......have had trouble finding reasons for impeachment of judges

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0038/SEC12.HTM&Title=-%3E2003-%3ECh0038-%3ESection%2012

38.12 Resignation, death, or removal of judges; disposition of pending matters and papers.--Upon the resignation, death, or impeachment of any judge, all matters pending before that judge shall be heard and determined by the judge's successor, and parties making any motion before such judge shall suffer no detriment by reason of his or her resignation, death, or impeachment. All judges, upon resignation or impeachment, shall file all papers pending before them with the clerk of the court in which the cause is pending; and the executor or administrator of any judge who dies pending any matter before him or her shall file all papers found among the papers of his or her intestate or testator with the said clerk.

History.--ss. 1,

[cyn]

Did you see what I said the other night about Michael being jealous of the closeness of the Schindler family after I'd met them & experienced their genuine warmth?

I believe Michael is incapable of such closeness. He is angry that they have it. He wants to hurt them in any way he can, and so will deprive them of what they hold dear -- even to the point taking Terri's ashes away to PA Schiavo place! [Terri's ashes -- how dreadful that sounds. Oh, God, protect her & save her!]

[tutstar]

--failed to ping some of you to my 2 previous posts.....

Now could Judge Greer's connection with Hospice personnel and his position on Committe for Guardianship Monitoring be enough to get him off?

38.02 Suggestion of disqualification; grounds; proceedings on suggestion and effect.--In any cause in any of the courts of this state any party to said cause, or any person or corporation interested in the subject matter of such litigation, may at any time before final judgment, if the case be one at law, and at any time before final decree, if the case be one in chancery, show by a suggestion filed in the cause that the judge before whom the cause is pending, or some person related to said judge by consanguinity or affinity within the third degree, is a party thereto, or is interested in the result thereof, or that said judge is related to an attorney or counselor of record in said cause by consanguinity or affinity within the third degree, or that said judge is a material witness for or against one of the parties to said cause, but such an order shall not be subject to collateral attack. Such suggestions shall be filed in the cause within 30 days after the party filing the suggestion, or the party's attorney, or attorneys, of record, or either of them, learned of such disqualification, otherwise the ground, or grounds, of disqualification shall be taken and considered as waived. If the truth of any suggestion appear from the record in said cause, the said judge shall forthwith enter an order reciting the filing of the suggestion, the grounds of his or her disqualification, and declaring himself or herself to be disqualified in said cause. If the truth of any such suggestion does not appear from the record in said cause, the judge may by order entered therein require the filing in the cause of affidavits touching the truth or falsity of such suggestion. If the judge finds that the suggestion is true, he or she shall forthwith enter an order reciting the ground of his or her disqualification and declaring himself or herself disqualified in the cause; if the judge finds that the suggestion is false, he or she shall forthwith enter the order so reciting and declaring himself or herself to be qualified in the cause. Any such order declaring a judge to be disqualified shall not be subject to collateral attack nor shall it be subject to review. Any such order declaring a judge qualified shall not be subject to collateral attack but shall be subject to review by the court having appellate jurisdiction of the cause in connection with which the order was entered.

History.--s. 3, ch. 16053, 1933; CGL 1936 Supp. 4155(2); s. 1, ch. 26890, 1951; s. 6, ch. 63-559; s. 206, ch. 95-147.

[trussell]

I imagine the ban on filming Terri is still in effect. Would be nice if they could get her outside where some innocently uninformed FReeper could accidently film it.

[cyn]

"Felos is a committed suicide/euthanasia advocate, to the point of obsession, as he has proved by his actions several times over."

'absent actual documents, how would one prove what Felos "knew"?"'-- thanks to both of you for your replies.

Yeah, and I know better than to look for logic, or truth, or fairness, or justice in such a person . . . plainly stated, Felos is enabling a murder, therefore he is a murderer.

I am thankful there is a higher, righteous Judge; in Him I can rest and so can Terri.

[nicmarlo]

I am thankful there is a higher, righteous Judge; in Him I can rest and so can Terri.

Yes, there is; and, yes, we can. And don't forget the Scriptures I posted yesterday.....all things secret will be made known. (Now, this is God's timetable, not ours.....the "when" and how they're made known, we do not know, but made know they will be.

[lonevoice]

So here's where you all are! (Are we going to use this thread for general news, comments, and updates? Or keep using the Daily thread?)

[nicmarlo]

could Judge Greer's connection with Hospice personnel and his position on Committe for Guardianship Monitoring be enough to get him off?

That is possible. But there would have to be a very strong connection to prove between Felos/Hospice/Judge, more than, perhaps, merely serving on the Board......but, I am no lawyer; this is a question that would best be directed to a "pro." : )

[nicmarlo]

LOL, that's what I was wondering earlier, but everybody seemed to be posting "here," so here am I.

[sweetliberty]

Oh we're still keeping the daily. We just got involved with this one.