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Spring (Texas) man raided by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services (Scary Carnivore reference!)
The Villager ^ | November 13, 2003 | Jim Belew

Posted on 11/19/2003 11:39:05 AM PST by TexRef

Three days before Halloween, George Norris, 24407 Pine Canyon Drive, Spring, got a visit from a U.S. agency that proved scarier than any spook or goblin.

He is still recovering from the encounter.

Norris, 65, and his wife, Kathy, own Spring Orchid Specialties.

"I import orchids from all around the world and have been doing it more than 25 years," he said.

A small greenhouse is located in the back of their home.

The income supplements his Social Security check.

He suffers from diabetes, arthritis and heart problems and is unable to work, he said.

At 10 a.m. Oct. 28, he said, three pick-up trucks pulled into his driveway and six people, five men and one woman, got out.

All of the men were wearing body armor and carrying sidearms.

Four of them came to the front door and two went to the back.

When he answered the front door, one of the men identified himself as a special agent with the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), a branch of the U.S. Department of the Interior.

"They serve me with a search warrant, they sit me in a chair in my kitchen, tell me not to move out of the chair. They read me my Miranda Rights, then tell me I'm not under arrest, but I can't leave that chair," Norris said.

"They wouldn't even permit me to get my glasses to read documents they were showing me. They had to send somebody to get my glasses for me."

The agents had a search warrant issued by U.S. Magistrate Judge Mary Milloy in Houston, empowering them to search for a certain type of orchid imported from Peru without required United States import permits.

According to FWS, Norris represented the plants as lawfully imported and sold them via electronic mail. The importation and selling of the orchids is a violation of the Lacey Act and is a felony.

The agents proceeded to rummage the entire house and greenhouse for nearly four hours, he said.

"They went through our dresser drawers, they went through my wife's underwear drawer; they went through my sock drawer; they went through our closets; they went through all the rooms in the house.

"They tore up everything, particularly my office. They took 20-something boxes of documents; they took my computer; they took my customer list; they took invoices; they took everything. They even took floppy disks that had fishing pictures on them."

Norris said he tried in vain to explain to the agents he was in compliance with U.S. and international laws allowing the sale of the type of orchid for which they were searching, phragmipedium, which grows in Peru.

Two types of classifications, Appendix One and Appendix Two, exist for some orchids, Norris said.

Appendix One orchids are endangered and Appendix Two are threatened. Appendix One applies to a limited quantity of plants considered seriously endangered in the wild.

All the rest of the plants are Appendix Two, which are considered threatened but legal for trade.

"I imported some Appendix One type plants from Peru in August, but they were artificially propagated. Any of the Appendix One plants that are artificially propagated, they don't come from the wild. They are either grown from seeds or divisions of plants that have been in greenhouses for a long time or something other than wild collected. They're no longer subject to Appendix One; they become automatically Appendix Two if the grower can certify that they are artificially propagated," he said.

Though the FSW agents listened, he said, they didn't seem to understand the explanation.

"They don't understand the differences. These are people that mostly make raids on folks with illegal parents, people trading in rhinoceros horns, tiger products, things of mostly animal nature," he said.

Norris said he believes his troubles may stem from FSW's use of CARNIVORE, a government system that can tap into computer e-mails.

"They showed me page 3 of a 5-page e-mail from several years ago where I was being offered smuggled plants. They did not show me pages 4 and 5 which were my answer to this fellow telling him we would not buy any such plants that were undocumented. This was so old that I don't even remember this e-mail," he said.

"Well, they went down and convinced the judge to give them a search warrant because they had an old copy of my CITES document from Peru showing these plants on there which they generally regard as Appendix One plants.

"But I imported them on my permits which allow me to import artificially propagated Appendix One plants," he said.

About four years ago, the FWS conducted a similar investigation of his premises and concluded he was in compliance with all laws, he said. "And this search was done without a search warrant by only asking me to cooperate, which I did."

Terry Thiebeault, the FWS supervisor of the agency's latest search of the Norris premises, declined to comment Monday on the case.

Norris has not been arrested or charged.

Norris said he will ask Judge Milloy to rescind the search warrant order and to instruct the FSW to return all the material they confiscated.

"For now, I am out of business and prevented from conducting my business," he said. I am getting checks coming in for payments of bills, but I do not have any of those records to make the payments to."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: carnivore; environment; usfishwildlife
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To: StolarStorm
Carnivore is just one more example of how our country is turning into a police state

We have armed thugs terrorizing an old man who has committed no crime. We are not turning into a police state... We already are a police state!
21 posted on 11/19/2003 12:26:23 PM PST by LittleJoe
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To: LittleJoe
Yeah, I hear ya. Only thing I can think of stem all this would be some kind of oversight over judges that sign warrants. It seems as if they just rubber stamp ANYTHING that crosses their desk. These judges need to be held legally accountable for warrants that are in error. The victims of these bogus warrants should also be compensated for their trouble.
22 posted on 11/19/2003 12:30:21 PM PST by StolarStorm
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To: TexRef
fortunately for the old man, all his illegal orchid records and seeds were hidden in the seat of the chair that they made him sit in...

yes, just because the police state has the technology, there are still low tech solutions to their tyranny... unfortunately we must all learn them...

first wave to unravel the technological tyranny... is through anonymous tipsters... aimed at high level bureaucrats... from secure phones of course...

slow the flow of information... worms infecting the computer systems and spamming...

civil disobedience, abandoning vehicles blocking major economic centers and government installations...

marches on television stations and to live newscasts

and finally, never give up the guns... always keep one in the seat of a kitchen chair...

teeman
23 posted on 11/19/2003 1:50:26 PM PST by teeman8r (there is more than one way to skin a cat, and even more tasty ways to prepare the meat)
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To: StolarStorm
These judges need to be held legally accountable for warrants that are in error. The victims of these bogus warrants should also be compensated for their trouble

I agree 100%.
The problem with compensation is that law enforcement would plant evidence when they served a warrant to insure that they would not be held liable.

We have a real crime problem in this country, and that crime problem has been created by law enforcement.

People have lost respect for the rule of law because of the criminal behavior of law enforcement.

When the people fear government, government becomes the enemy!
24 posted on 11/19/2003 2:15:15 PM PST by LittleJoe
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To: TexRef; AAABEST; Ace2U; Alamo-Girl; Alas; amom; AndreaZingg; Anonymous2; ApesForEvolution; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

25 posted on 11/20/2003 1:47:07 AM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!!
26 posted on 11/20/2003 3:36:10 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: TexRef
If Bush wants to be re-elected he has to get RID of these Clinton holdovers. THIS IS AMERICAN TERRORISM!!!
27 posted on 11/20/2003 4:42:35 AM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: TexRef
"They showed me page 3 of a 5-page e-mail from several years ago where I was being offered smuggled plants. They did not show me pages 4 and 5 which were my answer to this fellow telling him we would not buy any such plants that were undocumented. This was so old that I don't even remember this e-mail," he said.

Wait a minute.

This guy remembers that pages 4 and 5 were his response, but he doesn't remember the email?

Which is it?

28 posted on 11/20/2003 4:46:42 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: sailor4321
I've always thought that after you've ID'd yourself to an officer you are free to leave.

Not while a search warrant is being executed. Otherwise, suspects could simply leave, then claim that anything incriminating found was planted in their absence.

29 posted on 11/20/2003 4:48:28 AM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: TexRef
Archie! ARCHIE!

Call Inspector Cramer at once. Tell him these hounds are insufferable. Have him inform the Commissioner that if he does not desist, immediately, that I shall be forced to take direct action.

Tell Theodore to keep a sharp eye on these intruders while they are in the hot room.

No, Fritz, there will be no luncheon served these miscreants. A guest may be a pearl set on a silken pillow, but such as these are not guests. They have abused my hospitality, and I choose not to feed them.
30 posted on 11/20/2003 5:00:56 AM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: TexRef
This is a situation where the county sheriff should have been called while the search was executed. The sheriff should have reviewed the warrant and the alleged violation of the law. If the sheriff found anything smelly, he should have ordered the feds to leave. If they didn't leave he should order his deputies to level their weapons at the feds and announce they're all under arrest. If the feds resisted, shoot 'em.

Sheriffs need to defend their territory and its citizens from all terrorists, foreign or domestic.
31 posted on 11/20/2003 5:59:01 AM PST by sergeantdave (You will be judged by 12 people who were too stupid to get out of jury duty)
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To: StolarStorm; ffusco
Here is the web address http://plato.evansville.edu/texts/jowett/republic.htm
32 posted on 11/20/2003 10:43:47 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, dont waive your rights!)
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To: DLfromthedesert
You're not expectinng anything to happen soon, are you?
33 posted on 11/20/2003 10:47:07 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, dont waive your rights!)
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To: sergeantdave
I doubt if there is two Sheriffs in the entire country with those balls anymore.
34 posted on 11/20/2003 10:48:39 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, dont waive your rights!)
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To: farmfriend
BTTT Thanks for the pingaroo Farmfriend!;-D
35 posted on 11/20/2003 1:25:20 PM PST by sleavelessinseattle (When rare orchids are banned, only criminals will own rare orchids)
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