Candidates Confused on Gun Ban

Fox News ^ | November 19, 2003 | John R. Lott Jr.

[mykdsmom]

A new career awaits Democratic presidential candidates: offering advice to hunters.

Tuesday, Vermont Gov. Howard Dean explained his support for extending the assault weapons ban next year because

[Badray]

bttt

[mykdsmom]

But, but Sunshine Sister....Sen. Chuck Schumer claims the ban is one of "the most effective measures against terrorism that we have."

ROFLOL when I read this quote from UpChuckie.

MKM

[ExSoldier]

The problem with filing down the SEAR pin is that there is no select fire capability. It'd be easy for the weapon to go full auto and be out of control...a runaway gun so to speak that would only case fire when it ran out of ammo. I once saw a gov't model 45 do this on a range. The SEAR was naturally worn from excessive use and not much preventive maintenance. Suddenly WHAMWHAMWHAMWHAM! The startled shooter has the presence of mind to keep the piece pointed downrange while myself and every other safety officer on-site sprinted to his side. It was pretty wild.

[Ancesthntr]

Functionally, the banned semi-automatic guns are the same as other non-banned semi-automatic guns, firing the exact same bullets with the same rapidity and producing the exact same damage. The ban arbitrarily outlaws different guns based upon either their name or whether they have two or more cosmetic features, such as whether the gun could have a bayonet attached or whether the rifle might have a pistol grip.

Lott surely knows better, but the sheeple don't - the law didn't actually ban any guns, only the future production of them. As anyone who is in the least bit familiar with guns can tell you, there are mountains of pre-ban guns out there. They, and the pre-ban magazines, are perfectly legal to own (except in Kali, the PRNJ and a couple other foreign entities within the US borders). Thus: ALL OF THE PRE-BAN GUNS ARE STILL "ON THE STREET" . . . they, and millions of semi-auto look-alikes produced and imported since 1994. As far as I'm concerned, this is fine (heck, I own at least one of the post-bans), but it raises an issue: where is the bloodbath that the antis have predicted (and, quite clearly, have been hoping for)? It hasn't happened and it won't, because that's not what 99.999% of the owners of such firearms are like.

Note that I am not accepting the argument of the antis that this is a crime issue - to me it is a liberty issue - but this is effective to demolish the very narrow and irrelevant grounds on which they have rested their arguments.

[Sunshine Sister]

That is exactly right! Shouldn't we be banning terrorists with any weapon and leave American lawful gun owners alone! Sheeh! Upchuckie better inform himself if he is worried about terrorists.

[ExSoldier]

Theoretically, even a LEVER ACTION can be "converted" to full auto with the aforementioned change via gutting the interior of the action and add a few springs here and there.....and therein lies the slippery slope of the gun control agenda. "READILY CONVERTIBLE" is a very tricky definition and not one I'd want to try and defend. Better to stop the whole thrust of their plan and turn it back on them. The best defense being a good offense, etc etc.

[ExSoldier]

"deer hunters don't need to have assault weapons.”

RILES me when antiFREEDOM politicians try and define the limits of my civil rights. Next thing you know they'll be telling me my BIBLE is incorrect because its politically incorrect; OR my SUV is a threat to world peace; OR well you get the idea. And by the way, for certain types of deer, the 7.62x39 cartridge is perfectly acceptable. In fact I have friends who hunt deer with the MAK or the other civilian variant of the AK (whatsitsname??).

[Puppage]

that there is no select fire capability

Well, that would denote an assault rifle. In CT. you can have a fully automatic (ya need to get yet another permot, though) or a semi-auto, but not one with selective fire.

[ExSoldier]

"deer hunters don't need to have assault weapons.”

RILES me when antiFREEDOM politicians try and define the limits of my civil rights. Next thing you know they'll be telling me my BIBLE is incorrect because its politically incorrect; OR my SUV is a threat to world peace; OR well you get the idea. And by the way, for certain types of deer, the 7.62x39 cartridge is perfectly acceptable. In fact I have friends who hunt deer with the MAK or the other civilian variant of the AK (whatsitsname??).

[ExSoldier]

WHUPS! Sorry for the double post!

[going hot]

Oh, I agree with you completely regards the bogus laws. My comments were directed to Joe regarding the manipulation from semi to full auto.

With respect to the laws, you will find that I am in no way in agreement with infringement of the second amendment, in any way. I believe the citizenry should be able to access the same weapons that the us infantry soldier has access to. The responsibility for safe use lies with the owner of said firearm. Misuse, causing harm to innocents, should be dealt with severely, to the offending person, not to all users or owners of same or similar firearms.

[leprechaun9]

Same old B.S.

Most current published statistics on Violent Crime:
(Bureau of Justice Statistics)

Not sure if weapon used = 6%
Total Non-firearm = 17%
TOTAL FIREARM = 9%
No weapon used = 68%

I am waiting to hear what the 9 stooges have to say about the 68%?

[LibTeeth]

Re: "Why are we worring about AK 47s when the terrorists are looking to set off nuclear devices."

Good point. But even if we were talking about full auto AK-47s in the hands of those intending to do harm, as the North Hollywood shootout shows, these tools aren't as lethal or deadly as the media would have you believe. Expending thousands of rounds, the perps didn't kill anyone they hit. When the submachine gun wielding SWAT team had to steal(borrow? illegally transfer?) civilian AR-15s from a gun shop to penetrate the perp's body armor, they finally stopped the robbers. One perp committed suicide with a handgun rather than surrender, and the other died much later from his wounds as the perp was last in line to receive medical treatment from the EMTs. His family tried to sue for the delayed medical treatment. With quicker treatment he would probably have survived. If the cops had used a decent centerfire hunting rifle, the deaths would have been much quicker and certain.

Volume of fire is a consideration for military engagements to control troop movement or suppress fire where pinned down combatants can then be targeted with artillery or air support. Outside of military engagements volume of fire that misses is just turning money into noise.

[Sunshine Sister]

I remember that incident. I don't know diddly squat about weapons, and when words come out of legislators mouth regarding guns and they are known to have an agenda, well they are probably wrong as you have pointed out. Thanks for taking the time to esplain this!

[harpseal]

For some rifles Lott is correct generally those that fire from a closed bolt but there are some fully automatic rifles that merely need the subsitution og a few parts and no reciever modifications.

[King Prout]

well, gun nomenclature being the bizarre mishmash that it is, here's a weasel-out for you:
A purpose-built or "dedicated" semiautomatic rifle would have to be totally gutted and retrofitted in order to be made into a MACHINE GUN as opposed to a select-fire "assault rifle".
Meaning: retrofitted with all mechanisms required to feed and strip disintegrating-link or cloth-loop belts, etc...
An assault rifle is not a "machine gun"
An "assault weapon" is not an "assault rifle" OR a "machine gun"
A submachinegun is none of the above
etc...

Otherwise, I agree with your point - case: one can turn an M1911-A1 into a "machine-pistol" just by clipping the sear-disconnector off flush with the top of the face of the frame... though it'd be a stupid thing to do, IMO

[Roughneck]

It's also funny how they try to placate us by saying that they dont want to take guns away from "the hunter" - like hunters are the only ones who need/want/require guns. Well, I've never seen a deer try to rape and torture people, or take over our country or invade our homes with malicious intent.

I wish they would all quit pretending to be one of us while thinking we are stupid at the same time.

All free americans should be allowed the "assault" weapon of their choice - never more than now do I understand "FROM MY COLD DEAD FINGERS....

[Hat-Trick]

Why are we worring about AK 47s when the terrorists are looking to set off nuclear devices

You're getting warm. The assault weapons ban isn't about preventing terrorism (as Chuckie Schumer suggests), it's about promoting tyranny and citizen dependence on a nanny-state government.

Hat-Trick

[punster]

[quote]What exactly is Lott talking about here? Is he correct? I think that some rifles that required the change or modification of just one part to make them fully automatic. What's the deal?[/quote]

Usually, more than one piece is required plus milling of the receiver. For example, to convert an AR15 to M-16, the bolt carrier, trigger, disconnector and safety lever must be changed. An additional piece is required, the auto sear. The receiver does require milling and boring of a pivot pin hole for the receiver to accept this part. It is a fairly extensive job to set up to do all the operations to achieve that goal.

[Travis McGee]

"Funny...ain't no mention of huntin' deer in this book...