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French Milan Missile may have Knocked Out U.S. Tank (my title)
SciScoop ^
| 10/31/03
| Sciscoop
Posted on 11/18/2003 2:35:56 PM PST by fourscore
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To: rightofthefairway
I've put some really clean holes in some pretty thick steal with 12.7 x 99mm (nato) before but much still gonna be thicker than a pinky finger??
Not all of them.
The Chinese Type 84 armour piercing discarding sabot round for the Soviet 12.7x108mm AA tank heavy MG, for instance. Or these:
41
posted on
11/18/2003 4:02:45 PM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: Poohbah
Too close, and any hit is just plain dumb luck. Too close and you just point the weapon at the target.
42
posted on
11/18/2003 4:04:16 PM PST
by
cinFLA
To: cinFLA
Too close and you just point the weapon at the target.And it will almost certainly miss. SACLOS ATGMs have a pI (probability of on-target impact) of about 0.05 inside their minimum range.
43
posted on
11/18/2003 4:11:05 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
To: Poohbah
I am completely ignorant of these weapons, only logical. We seem to have a short range delivery ststem like an RPG with a home rigged Milan warhead. If impossible, I will shut up forever on the subject.
To: glorgau
But if you look at the location of the hit (center mass), that is indicative of a stand off shot. Operators are trained to aim for center mass. A close in shot from an RPG would probably go for a mobility kill (take out the engine, or rear sprocket) instead of going for the well protected crew compartment. I've fired RPG7s at tanks, hitting tracks and sprockets with little effect other than to burn a half-inch hole through track shoes and maybe blow off the rubber track block pads. the more usual aiming point is the third support roller, but the Abrams skirt protects that helpful target, not that it helped the crew much in this case. A much better target on an Abrams is the engine compartment from behind, offering at least a chance at a mobility kill from damage to the turbine or final drive [or setting the air cleaner assembly afire] or the bustle rack and APU at the back of the turret in hopes of detonating the rounds stored inside- not likely, unless you've got one of the *magic bullets* used in the example under discussion.
The idea of our 5-million dollar M1A2 SEP and M1A1-D tanks being killed by a $35 RPG-7D rocket launcher is unsettling, to say the least.
-archy-/-
45
posted on
11/18/2003 4:13:42 PM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: shamusotoole
There's an interesting idea...but Milan has a VERY healthy warhead. I'd hate to be the first schmuck to have to fire the thing. (Imagine the kit-bashed round getting maybe two or three feet downrange--and then nosing over and hitting the ground with a loud "KABOOM!")
46
posted on
11/18/2003 4:14:52 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
To: Cannoneer No. 4
Stickin to my AT4 Spigot SWAG !............Stay Safe and Thanks for the information Numbah four !
47
posted on
11/18/2003 4:23:35 PM PST
by
Squantos
(Support Mental Health !........or........ I"LL KILL YOU !!!!)
To: archy; Matthew James
The idea of our 5-million dollar M1A2 SEP and M1A1-D tanks being killed by a $35 RPG-7D rocket launcher is unsettling, to say the least.Back to "boots on the ground!"
48
posted on
11/18/2003 4:29:54 PM PST
by
Travis McGee
(----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
To: fourscore
Do or did the South Africans really hate the Serbs, and if so, why? Was the ANC in charge back then?
To: Jacob Kell
To hear some folks on FR tell it, EVERYONE but the Serbs are part of the VWWCAATS (Vast World-Wide Conspiracy Against All Things Serbian).
50
posted on
11/18/2003 4:37:55 PM PST
by
Poohbah
("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
To: archy; Cannoneer No. 4
I did a quick search and it looks like there are thousands of Milans all over Europe and the Middle East. One report that the Poles found some Milans in Iraq.
51
posted on
11/18/2003 4:51:14 PM PST
by
colorado tanker
("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
To: All
52
posted on
11/18/2003 5:14:57 PM PST
by
Cannoneer No. 4
(God is not on the side with the biggest battalions. God is on the side with the best shots.)
To: Travis McGee; archy
The idea of our 5-million dollar M1A2 SEP and M1A1-D tanks being killed by a $35 RPG-7D rocket launcher is unsettling, to say the least.
Kipling felt the same way.
Don't remember the exact line but something about,
"A hundred pounds worth of private school education falls to a three ruppee slug."
It ain't a new feeling.
53
posted on
11/18/2003 6:01:21 PM PST
by
tet68
( Patrick Henry ......."Who fears the wrath of cowards?")
To: Poohbah
I like your version best.
RAH lives!
54
posted on
11/18/2003 6:24:44 PM PST
by
ASOC
To: tet68
Kipling felt the same way. Don't remember the exact line but something about,
"A hundred pounds worth of private school education falls to a three ruppee slug."
Kipling neatly described a particular time and set of circumstances and yet did so in a manner that's both universal and timeless. It's not the same one you reference, but your quote recalled that in The Ballad of Boh da Thone we are told that:
The wind of the dawn went merrily past,
The high grass bowed her plumes to the blast.
And out of the grass, on a sudden, broke
A spirtle of fire, a whorl of smoke
And Captain ONeil of the Black Tyrone
Was blessed with a slug in the ulnar-bone
The gift of his enemy Boh Da Thone.
(Now a slug that is hammered from telegraph-wire
Is a thorn in the flesh and a rankling fire.)
55
posted on
11/18/2003 7:10:25 PM PST
by
archy
(Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
To: Jacob Kell
Don't know about what S. Africa thought of Serbia, but we do know that Milosevic's Yugoslavia & its successor Serbian entities were selling weaponry to include explosives for use in artillery shells, rocket fuel, cruise missile technology, maintenance assistance and even military and defense technology advisers throughout the 90s and right on up to 2002; all in violation of international sanctions and in direct opposition to U.S. interests. Possible that American soldiers have been killed or maimed in Iraq with explosives provided by the Serbs. The Yugos/Serbs have done much the same with Qaddafi's Libya, so who knows how much stuff has gone further to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
The U.S. government has protested and Kostunica has been doing his best to get this under control, but corruption & anti-American attitudes among Milosevic hold-overs have made it tough to root it all out. Under Milosevic, Serbia was an enemy of the USA and a friend to our enemies.
To: mark502inf
above message references Serbian arms sales to Hussein's Iraq.
To: archy; tet68
Can't we just let robots occupy Iraq? Patrol it with UAVs?
;^)
58
posted on
11/18/2003 8:22:58 PM PST
by
Travis McGee
(----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
To: mark502inf
Actually, didn't Yugoslavia have ties with both Iraq and Libya dating back to the 1970s, at least?
To: Poohbah
The Milan 2,2t or 3s are bigger but are not behemouth. In video footage footage shot during the Battle of Baghdad, a dud RPG was shot at an armored vehicle. It caromed off the vehicle with a lot of oomph.
If I did not care about my life, I would remove an RPG payload and duct tape or super glue an armed Milan warhead to an RPG. That would solve the 400m problem. It doesnt need to go too far on the shot, so aiming is not too big a problem. If I miss or if it hits the deck after 3 feet, I'm in "Virgin" territory anyway.
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